Grmbl. You always try to misunderstand me! Bad Rosco!
I think I proved that I was intelligent - well, depending on the topic, of course - or at least not stupid.
If people thought I was stupid because I was a women, I proved that either, there is no correlation between gender and intelligence, or that I am intelligent despite being a woman - I think, the outcome depends on the mindset of the person who had the initial thought.
I personally donât think there is any correlation between gender and intelligence, though there is a correlation between gender and education in countries, where either more boys or more girls are allowed to go to school.
Perfect first reaction to someone thinking youâre stupid: Just drop your pants.
Ehhhm⊠no.
Not at all: re-read your statement. From a strictly logical standpoint, you state that people thought you were stupid, that they saw youâre a woman, and they inferred the former from the latter. And then you say you proved them wrong, but you donât say which of the three premises you proved wrong. Therefore, one of the premises you may have invalidated is that youâre a woman.
Itâs plain, cold logic. Why jump to conclusions? I had no ill intentions
The point isnât that âComa was strong enough to overcome those prejudices so no harm was doneâ itâs more wouldnât you like to live in a world where you didnât have to constantly surmount those social obstacles caused by you being a woman? And what about women who are more meek than you, wouldnât you want to help them out of their subjugation?
We can create the conditions where women are actually considered equal to men, and all it really takes is for everyone who wants that to point out whenever someone is being sexist or mysoginistic. Most people are unaware of their prejudices, and while they may lash out defensively when you say something, later theyâll likely self reflect and change their ways. The more we do that the more the culture will change, and problematic people who indignantly refuse to update their views will become outnumbered and easier to spot.
Thing is, by surmounting social obstacles, I actually show people that women are equal to men. By simply doing it. If I need support for that, I show that I am weakerâŠ
Yep, but surely not by shutting up âover-manlyâ men, but rather by strengthening the women. Thatâs what so many people get wrong - if men and women should be equal (what I strongly agree on, and I think everyone here does), it makes more sense to make women stronger and not to force men to be more sensitive, because we women couldnât stand them otherwise - thatâs just the wrong way round, in my eyes. I am strong enough to defend myself against the few stupid men I meet. If I had to rely on laws or other people to protect me, wouldnât that put me in the exact weak position I wanted to avoid?
If I constantly insist on âpeople have to take my gender into special considerationâ, I behave like a victim, like a weak person, and I am - by the very word of it - sexist.
Either people respect me, or they donât. I wouldnât want people to respect me because they are afraid to be called a misogynist if they donât⊠thatâs the kind of support I wouldnât want at all, and I think it does many women a huge disservice.
But thatâs exactly this âthought-policeâ-thing people critizice⊠itâs totally okay to discuss things, yep, but to jump straight into an existing discussion, shout out âhey, youâre sexist here!â and move along again doesnât really help anyone, I think.
I mean, I had people (feministsâŠ) calling me sexist because I wear almost exclusively skirts or dresses, often paired with corsets, so, classical female clothes. This is just sooo wrongâŠ
Hey, I totally got your point, believe me - and proving I was a man would be a fair, logical reaction! But I just played that through in my head, and it just looked funny, soâŠ
love that clip of Jamie Oliver teaching kids how to make nuggets/tenders, then shows them how commercial nuggets are made (and what theyâre made from) and asks âWhoâd still wanna eat these?â ⊠and every kid raises their hand
Actually, I really really do. I used to work maintenance at the a Tysonâs plant. It was one of three making McNuggets in the U.S. and made all the McNuggetts shipped west of the Mississippi river.
They contain, chicken meat, the same part that chicken strips are made of, and some of the chicken skin. It gets ground up, partially frozen by co2, then pressed into shape, breaded, and partially cooked before being frozen and bagged.
Women are strong, and are made even stronger by the hurdles they are forced to overcome. Strong and Sensitive are not antonyms. Theyâre barely related.
My perception is that in almost every arena men start with significant advantages and women start with several disadvantages. We strengthen the women by shrinking the inequality gap between them, giving women a new starting point so that they are not all tuckered out by the time they reach the same progress the men started at.
Thereâs no special consideration being taken, itâs just evening the playing field. You shouldnât have to be strong so that the pansy men who are too afraid to speak up about their views for fear of being labelled a misogynist can be weak.
Toxic masculinity is a lot deeper than just being an asshole or people thinking youâre dumb/weak cuz youâre a woman. Thatâs not really toxic masculinity in the latter, rather sexism.
Toxic masculinity is more about the pressures put on men, often by men (and society) to be a certain type of âmanâ and be forced to emphasize certain masculine traits like dominance, strength and competition. The concept of being an alpha male et al.
Some are, some are not. Same with men and any other gender - itâs never a good idea to generalize
Ah câmon, I know that⊠I could maybe better have written âforce men to be more considerateâ or whatever, but I guess you got my point still.
I just think⊠I want to be respected for what I achieved. I did nothing to âachieveâ being a woman, so, I donât need any special treatment for that. The baseline respect you owe every living being, thatâs enough.
I do agree that women should have the same payment, same education, same rights as men, absolutely, and I know that there is still a lot to do in that field. And thatâs something that should be worked on, absolutely, though not by âweakeningâ men.
But calling men sexist because of things they say⊠meh. I think thatâs just not as important. Yes, of course it might hurt the individual, and of course itâs not a nice thing to do, butâŠ
Let me put it otherwise. If people donât shout silly stuff at me because I am a woman, they do it because of my mods. Or because of my clothes. Or because of the music I hear. Or whatever. I was always a bit of an âoutsiderâ anyway, so I finally do not care any more, as long as itâs only words. Itâs someoneâs opinion, so okay, they are allowed to have it. I do not agree with them, but - so what?
I think, for feminism, there are much bigger areas to fight in than just semantics.
I had to smile on that one. Being a submissive for a very long time, I have quite a hard time finding dominant men nowadays. Just sayinââŠ
I even know men who actually are dominant, and who try to hide it, donât dare to live it at all, because âthatâs not the way you treat a woman!â. That makes me really sad - I think there is pressure from both sides, and funny enough, those who shout loudest for âequalityâ sometimes just canât accept submissive women or dominant men, even if everyone in that relationship is happy. Made that experience quite often, and I think itâs just hypocritical.
Totally agreed that in a sexual setting thereâs no issue with males being dominant and women being submissive (and vice versa if thatâs how you roll). Thatâs connected to what we are as animals though, its instinctual. Itâs also occurring at a time when both parties have consented (hopefully). I can treat my partner like a fucktoy in the bedroom, but then be respectful to her when weâre in polite company. No issues there. I donât think the feminization of men youâre alluding to is caused by PC culture I think most men have always just been like that.
The problem arises when those instinctual gender differences surface in day to day interactions (like the workplace or in a social setting like a forum people visit every day)
I donât know how to respond to this. I donât want to be a dick but it just seems nonsensical. How are we âweakeningâ men by making them consider other peopleâs thoughts and feelings before they speak, instead of barreling through life with no regard for others.
Maybe they just donât want to. Maybe itâs just their opinion, and honestly, maybe those who are easily offended by such things should just not take other peopleâs opinions so serious. Maybe just live and let live.
By âweakeningâ I mean things like this nice help-a-child-in-africa-bullshit we have here in Germany, where you can decide to adopt a) a girl or b) oh, gender doesnât matter to me. Hm. No way to specifically help a boy.
They even had a flyer for their work, where they wrote about starving children, and then, literally: âThis is even worse if the child is a girlâ. This is so cruel - a starving child is a fucking starving childâŠ
Or âweakeningâ in the way that some men are totally insecure around women, always afraid so say something wrong, to behave wrong, whatever. This is actually happening, and itâs just absurd - and no, Iâm not talking about 16-year-old boys or grown up virgins, Iâm talking about men in the middle of their life who just donât know whatâs going on any more. Because people lash out at them for⊠stupid stuff.
Yep, but for some people this is just not limited to the bedroom.
I know and I totally got that, but still - I like dominance in men. Full stop.
I strongly agree that people should be able to do whatever they want, but if what they want to do is harmful to another person then we canât let them persist unopposed
Itâs a crazy mixed up time, and thereâs inevitably going to be confusion and growing pains. No pain no gain though. I hope you donât mix up the reasoned debate we have on here with the mob-rule craziness on twitter.
So many good things said here that itâs hard to not replyâŠ
But I feel like I stumbled upon this train far too late to have enough time to reply appropriately.
nuggetsâŠDo you know how and more importantly, what they are made of?
I think most men have always just been like that.