The anti🚫-derailment🚃 & thread🧵 hijacking🔫 thread🧵 ⁉

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@ODaily

I’m curious, how’s that app work?

It’s all about making Contact Tracing much faster and easier.

Every business or premisis has a QR Code at the entry (and normally throughout the store) Public transport, tourist locations etc

It’s actually a prosecutable offence for businesses not to display a QR code

We use the App to “check in” to a location
(we can also add manually instead of QR code) also there will be a manual resister to sign in, with hand sanitiser to use etc.

If you have checked in anywhere that has had exposure to Covid, you would get a notification via the App.
If you get notified you would self isolate and get a Covid test and authorities would get in contact

Here is the App blurb from the PlayStore

Speed up contact tracing by creating a digital diary of the places you visit

NZ COVID Tracer is the Ministry of Health’s official contact tracing mobile app. It helps you protect your friends, whānau and community by enabling faster contact tracing.

Help contact tracing go faster by creating a private digital diary of the places you visit. Scan the official QR codes wherever you see them and add manual entries for your visits to other places.

Use Bluetooth Tracing to enable the Exposure Notification System on your phone.

Sign up for contact alerts in case you’ve checked into a location at the same time as someone with COVID-19, or exchanged anonymous Bluetooth keys with someone with COVID-19.

If you’re found to have COVID-19, you can share your digital diary with contact tracers. This will help us identify whether any of your friends, whānau or community members may have also been exposed, so we can respond quickly and stop any further spread of the virus in New Zealand.

If you test positive for COVID-19, you can also upload your anonymous Bluetooth Tracing keys so that other app users who have been close to you will be quickly notified. This helps to keep your friends, whanau and community safe without compromising on your privacy.

Register your contact information so contact tracers can get in touch if they need to.

The Ministry of Health has worked closely with the Privacy Commissioner and independent security experts during the development of NZ COVID Tracer to ensure your privacy and data security are protected.

Your digital diary will be stored securely on your phone and deleted automatically after 60 days. Any personal information you choose to share with contact tracers will be used only for public health purposes and never for enforcement.

Information about who you have encountered using Bluetooth Tracing will never leave your phone and is automatically deleted after 14 days.

@ODaily

y’all were locking down because you had ONE domestic case of Covid.

That was the first case, in something like ~7 months.
We opened up our border to some states of Australia and a Delta strain case got through.

From about 2.5 weeks ago we have been on lockdown. (Level 4)
“Everybody is to stay at home except essential workers.”

We are at just under 300 cases now, and we have not yet had a downward trend.

Churches were the biggest spreader of the virus, but the App again helped speed up contact tracing.

As of yesterday, our lockdown has been extended another 2 weeks (Except for regions with no cases, they exit lockdown next week)

Is that more info than you wanted?

[ODaily]

for perspective;

Google says New Zealand has 4.917 million people and with 300 cases you’d have one per 16,390 people.

Arkansas has 3.018 million people and it looks like we have 2,261 cases or one per every 1,334 people.

In other words we have a little over 12 times as much. BUT… That’s reported cases, and there’s alot of people around here who simply get sick and JUST KEEP GOING ABOUT THEIR LIFE. I shit you not. I’d bet the true ratio is worse than 20:1 by comparison to New Zealand.

I work with a guy who refuses (loudly) to even consider a vaccine. If the subject comes up he goes completely blow-hard on it and starts invoking every ridiculous conspiracy theory he can until he runs out of those and starts off on racist tangents. The unbridled, unchecked emotional shitstorm that he unleashes is at best staggeringly incoherent.

And he’s normal around here. The unvaccinated greatly out number the vaccinated. It was 30/70, but started to climb a bit when everyone got scared of the Delta Variant. It’s at 40/60 now.

There is no contact tracing here. If you get sick you’re supposed to go home for 10 days and isolate. But by that point 2-3 other people have picked it up. And nobody does anything about it until THEY start to show symptoms, at which point they go home for 10 days and assumably after they’ve already infected a few more.

@Pilgrimsmaster

Is that more info than you wanted?

So yeah, basically not. Sorry for the rant, but I’m sure you can see why.

Edit:
Also, what is

@Pilgrimsmaster

whānau

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@ODaily

Also, what is

@Pilgrimsmaster

whānau

Maori word for Family (Which could include extended family)

[Zwack]

I am in Oregon, which is a bit better for vaccination rate I believe, but still not great.

I work for a healthcare company, and some of my co-workers appear to be “anti Covid 19 vaccine”.

I hear crap from them about such great points as…

• It’s no worse than a cold. - That would be the sort of cold people die from then.

• You don’t mandate the flu vaccine. - Actually, I would if I could.

• The vaccine isn’t effective. - Both Moderna and Pfizer are very effective.

• People (usually a friend of a friend) have died after getting the vaccine. - The CDC track all deaths following ANY medical treatment, the death rate is 0.0019% and the vast majority of those have nothing to do with the vaccine.

• The side effects of the vaccine are really bad. - I had almost no reaction to either shot apart from some injection site soreness. Others I know have been sick for one to three days in varying degrees, but not as sick as anyone I know who caught Covid 19.

The CDC page on adverse events is well worth reading.

Of course this is all part of the conspiracy and we should be taking ivermectin purchased at the feed store instead.

[Eriequiet]

@Zwack

You don’t mandate the flu vaccine. - Actually, I would if I could.

I’m pretty surprised the number of people in this community that would strip people of bodily autonomy

I got the vaccine after research and consideration,
So don’t try and call me anti-vax
but if you tried to take away my choice, there’s a good chance I’d tell you to go fuck yourself on principle

Stripping people of their body rights and/or forcing or forbidding people to undergo medical procedures is wrong,
The ends don’t justify the means
Don’t let fear control you, or try to control others

The only exception to this is those who are not of sound mind or capable of exercising self determination

Is there misinformation or misconceptions about the vaccine? Sure

But there are plenty of people that have valid hesitation, and the current climate is getting more and more polarized
And were getting to the point of calling everyone who doesn’t immediately trust it, stupid… and borderline gaslighting them… or even trying to extort people into it by threatening them

You want more people to get the vaccine? Especially those that aren’t interested or hesitant?
You need to change your approach

[Coma]

@Eriequiet

So don’t try and call me anti-vax

Same here, happily vaxxed against Covid, but rarely against anything else. I think it’s important to use your brain when it comes to vaccinating in general…
I usually think about some points before:

1. how likely is it that I meet the disease somewhere? Like, I’m not vaccinated against rabies, as it is pretty much extinct here. If I decided to work with bats or travel somewhere where rabies is a problem, I’d surely get a vaccination.
2. how dangerous is the disease, if I get it? I’m not vaccinated against the flu, because I have a pretty good health and even if I might get sick for a week or two, I will survive it without lasting consequences.
   Covid, on the other hand, might kill me or destroy my sense of smell, that’s definitely not worth it.
3. how dangerous are the possible side-effects of a vaccination? In most cases, at least in Europe, the side-effects are very small. But getting a “vaccination” against Malaria might have some serious side-effects, so this should be taken into consideration as well…

Another point especially for the covid vaccination is that I can help to reduce the spreading of the disease if I get it - so even if I would not profit from it, it definitely helps others around me (or anywhere on the globe), and that’s a big plus.

But I think it’s sad that there are currently only two possible ways, seemingly - either you are totally for every vaccination under the sun, or you are a conspiracy-loving anti-vaxxer… I am neither.

Fun fact - my last tetanus vaccination was 1996. I was told to refresh it at least every ten years, but instead, I decided to get my titer determined every 3-5 years, and funny enough - the protection is still very high. Even that high, that I should officially not get a refreshing, because it could have serious side-effects…
But most people don’t know about that and instead get re-vaccinated every few years, no matter if it makes any sense or not

So I think vaccinations are a great thing and have helped to get rid of many serious diseases. Whenever it makes sense to get one, I think it is a good thing, either to protect yourself or others. But still, the recommendation to get vaccinated against anything that’s possible, and to refresh that as often as possible, sounds a bit like people trying to make some money…

[Eriequiet]

@Coma

I usually think about some points before:

1. how likely is it that I meet the disease somewhere?

Summary

Like, I’m not vaccinated against rabies, as it is pretty much extinct here. If I decided to work with bats or travel somewhere where rabies is a problem, I’d surely get a vaccination.

2. how dangerous is the disease, if I get it?

Summary

I’m not vaccinated against the flu, because I have a pretty good health and even if I might get sick for a week or two, I will survive it without lasting consequences.
Covid, on the other hand, might kill me or destroy my sense of smell, that’s definitely not worth it.

3. how dangerous are the possible side-effects of a vaccination?

Summary

In most cases, at least in Europe, the side-effects are very small. But getting a “vaccination” against Malaria might have some serious side-effects, so this should be taken into consideration as well…

Another point

Summary

especially for the covid vaccination is that I can help to reduce the spreading of the disease if I get it - so even if I would not profit from it, it definitely helps others around me (or anywhere on the globe), and that’s a big plus.

All solid and sound arguments, and great ways to convince someone they should get vaccinated, but often when you try to force someone you wind up closing their mind to it

[Coma]

@Eriequiet

when you try to force someone you wind up closing their mind to it

Yep, and that’s why I am totally against forced or mandatory vaccinations. Still I don’t get it why people don’t get vaccinated against covid, simply because all points I made are totally met - it’s widespread, it’s possibly very dangerous, the side-effects are not that bad and you can protect others as well. I think it’s a sad fact that so many people (here in Germany as well) rather decide to believe some conspiracy idiots than to just use their own brains…

[Eriequiet]

@Coma

Still I don’t get it why

I think we are stuck in a feedback loop,

People are hesitant, and instead of treating their hesitation as valid and trying to address it, they are shouted down…

Which makes them more hesitant

It also fuels the conspiracy theorists when the government tries to force things down people’s throats

[Zwack]

I am not American. You might not be aware that the US government mandates a list of vaccines for immigrants.

My (American) employer requires that I either get an annual flu vaccine, or explicitly decline it and document that I declined it.

While I don’t think every vaccine should be mandatory there are several that should be, at least in places where the disease in question is endemic. For example Polio vaccinations in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

As for your comment about being of sound mind, you could easily argue that people who would rather eat horse dewormer than get a vaccine are not of sound mind.

[Zwack]

I notice that the only comment of mine that you raised any objection to was that of mandating the flu vaccine.

Given that these are senior engineers in IT working for a healthcare company what do you think about the other points that they raised?

[Eriequiet]

@Zwack

As for your comment about being of sound mind, you could easily argue that people who would rather eat horse dewormer than get a vaccine are not of sound mind.

I figured there would be at least one “people who don’t believe what I believe aren’t of sound mind” comment

@Zwack

Given that these are senior engineers in IT working for a healthcare company what do you think about the other points that they raised?

Stripping people of their body rights and/or forcing or forbidding people to undergo medical procedures is wrong,
The ends don’t justify the means

Frame it however you like

[Zwack]

@Eriequiet

I figured there would be at least one “people who don’t believe what I believe aren’t of sound mind” comment

I am not surprised about that. I have to say that I really can’t understand the Horse paste crowd. Particularly when you consider that both Oregon and Washington are treating 9 people each at the moment for the effects of ivermectin overdoses.

[Zwack]

@Eriequiet

Stripping people of their body rights and/or forcing or forbidding people to undergo medical procedures is wrong,
The ends don’t justify the means

Frame it however you like

So, are you campaigning for the US government to stop doing exactly that to immigrants?

You have not responded to any of the false claims that have been made, if you remove just that one point from my original post then do you agree with any of the other points?

Covid 19 is no worse than a cold.
The vaccine is worse than Covid 19.
People known to them have died after having had the vaccine.
The vaccine isn’t effective.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@Zwack

US government mandates a list of vaccines for immigrants.

I’m curious, do you have this list to hand?
Otherwise I’ll just google

[Eriequiet]

@Zwack

You have not responded to any of the false claims that have been made, if you remove just that one point from my original post then do you agree with any of the other points?

I chose to get the vaccine didn’t I?
I made a personal choice

@Zwack

So, are you campaigning for the US government to stop doing exactly that to immigrants?

Forcing or forbidding people to undergo medical procedures is wrong
I never limited my statement

[anon3825968]

@Eriequiet

Forcing or forbidding people to undergo medical procedures is wrong
I never limited my statement

I’m hesitant to dip into that convo because it never ends well. But I will say this:

Yes, your right to control what goes in your body should be inalienable. But then you should bear the consequences of your decisions. For instance, the following rights also apply:

• My rights as an employer to fire you for coming to work unvaccinated when I mandated that you should be. My rules, your right to work someplace else.
• The state’s right to stop providing healthcare if you don’t comply with their mandates.
• A rave party’s organizer’s right to deny you entry.
• A bar owner’s right to deny you service.

It is no different from smoking: if you’re a smoker, it’s your choice and you’re free to do so. But you get to be inconvenienced daily because you smoke, and rightly so because, like it or not, you live in society among other human beings who are impacted by your life choice.

It is quite different from, say the tetanus vaccine: nobody suffers if you catch tetanus and die clenching your teeth like a dog in a ditch if you choose not to take the vaccine. But even then, when I worked as a metalworker, the state (Belgium) mandated that I get the vaccine every 5 years, and I would be fined quite heftily if I didn’t.

[Zwack]

The state has various other mandates that are non negotiable. For example, laws against Drunk Driving. If you get drunk you are not necessarily harming anyone else, but once you get behind the wheel you are much more likely to be involved in an accident and could potentially kill others. Should drink driving be allowed because the drinker gets to make their own decision? Do the victims get a say?

[anon3825968]

@Zwack

The state has various other mandates that are non negotiable.

Taxes That’s not an option, yet God know I’d gladly stop giving money to a state that spends so much of it in military hardware specifically designed to maim and kill my fellow humans.

[Zwack]

It has changed since I immigrated in 1999, it used to be a lot more complicated, divided by sex and age range.