The anti🚫-derailment🚃 & thread🧵 hijacking🔫 thread🧵 ⁉

It’s not just the ”I refuse to take the vaccine" but no vaccine and refusing to wear a mask because “Freedom”. That I really can’t stand.

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I know several people who are not vaccinated because of medical issues they quite commonly get shit for being “anti vaccers” but they all have adverse reactions to any vaccine they have ever taken.

Same here in Germany…
We had some light lockdowns, but we didn’t have the situation with lots of deaths and military patrolling the streets, so you could only go out for a second to get your groceries…
So people just don’t take it seriously. We have the obvious bunch of crazies, yes, but even worse - a big bunch of people who just don’t really care. Like, why should I get vaccinated, it’s not thaaaat dangerous.
And that’s a problem for the whole society, and of course, it makes people angry.
But I agree that we need a better approach, especially to those people. I have the urge to shout at them and just poke them with a rainbow coloured unicorn horn until they finally go get their vaccination, but I know this will be of little to no help… but I just don’t know how to approach those people at all.

edit: Oh and yes, I’m a bit late, but I miss laughing Rosco as well! :kissing_heart:

Completely different. They are not Anti-Vaxers.
Those are the people that need EVERYBODY else to play nice…
Like @Zwack said

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Totally.

On the other hand.

I would have no problem with people and their “Freedom” if I, and so many others weren’t paying a heavy heavy price for it. One person’s rights end where the next person’s begin.

If the anit-vaxxers could find a way to totally isolate themselves from everyone else, then I couldn’t care less whether they got it or not. It’s when they don’t get it, and then insist on being part of my daily life that’s a problem. From my perspective, they’re forcing me to be exposed to a potentially deadly plague, because of selfish unspecified reasons covered up by a layer of bull shit excuses.

For fuck’s sake, this could have all been OVER if everyone had lined up last spring and got a shot.

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Given that you can still get and transmit covid once vaccinated, I don’t think this isn’t true, even if you had 100% vaccination,

Better position likely, but it’s not a magic pill… add to that the protection offered by the vaccine isn’t permanent, plus logistically we couldn’t have done it anyways

Tbh statements like that I hear sound like a bit of a psychological defense mechanism, it’s easier to blame someone/group for it continuing than face the notion that it’s a lot more complicated than just everyone getting a shot

I guess I’m just sick of seeing dehumanizing tactics and hate applauded and spread faster than any virus

It’s both amazing and saddening how quickly it always becomes an “us vs them” and how quickly it becomes ok to dehumanize

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Of course it is, but I’m sure at least some lives could have been saved already if people were less hesitant on getting the shot.
Like I said, I’m totally against “forced” vaccinations, barely have any vaccinations myself, and I’m always happy when people use their brains and weigh the pros and cons. My only problem in this case is, that I can hardly see anything on the “con” side, and the people refusing to get vaccinated (so, not those who can’t for medical reasons or such) can hardly deliver any arguments. While we have the big, fat “pro” of protecting not only ourselves, but basically everyone else as well - yeah, the virus can be spread, even if you are vaccinated, but it is less likely and less dangerous.

While I (obviously) agree with that, do you have any arguments why it’s okay not to get vaccinated in this case? Until now, in my environment, I heard medical reasons (which are fine), I heard some scepticism (that can be met with facts), and I heard a lot of stupid nonsense - except for the first case, none of them were valid arguments against a vaccination.
And if people act stupid, I have the right to call that stupid - that’s not dehumanizing. If people risk other people lives because they are afraid that Bill Gates might remote control them, I think I have the right to call them fucking idiots as well.

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Logistically we would be able to vaccinate every adult without contraindications (easily in fact, the infrastructure is already in place). We wouldn’t be able to eradicate the disease yet because children serve as a reservoir population. Until the testing is done and there’s approval for use of the vaccines on children we won’t eradicate it, so it’s not about that.

It boils down to:
Do you want to be minorly inconvenienced in order to save the lives of vulnerable people who are unable to get vaccinated (and yourself)?

The explanations for being against vaccination are unsatisfactory because the real explanation is selfishness. That’s why it’s so upsetting for those who are vaccinated, the inherently selfish nature of the denial is maddening. Add on top of that, the science is in and indicates that not only will you be saving others but you’ll be saving yourself by getting it, and to deny that indicates a level of stubborn stupidity seldom exposed in such a glaringly obvious way.

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This is a real good example of two people having a rational discussion. This is good.

My reply would be that we dont need a perfect vaccine. We need each infected person to infect ( on average) less than 1 person. If that happens then the disease runs out of fuel and burns out.

But if I said this to a true anti vaxxer, then the reason would change to something else. It’s just a constant stream of exscuses. Whats really frustrating is when someone (and this HAS happened to me repeatedly) switches to blaming a political scapegoat / adversary.

Those people, whether its nice to say or not, are being irrationally stupid.
And they’re doing it with my health, well-being and livelihood.

I’m not inclined to be nice to them as a result. Im not trying to coerce them because its blatantly obvios they WILL NOT budge.

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This. I just lost a friend of over 20 years due to his inability to discuss and communicate. It is a lot of “whataboutism”

This is his go to.

I don’t mind talking politics, but let’s talk, not just bounce around cause I made you think.

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as opposed to… rationally stupid? :rofl: :rofl:

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The county I live in managed to hold more big vaccination events than people wanted to attend. Everyone who wanted to be vaccinated could be vaccinated, and then some. So I don’t think it’s a logistics issue.

Yes, the polarisation is terrible. But it certainly seems to me that the politicisation of the pandemic has been done by one particular group. I’m not sure why Republicans (in my experience this is the case) don’t want to get the Trump vaccine.

Some of my co-workers are very much anti-vaccine, and yet don’t have any real reason for not taking it, other than “I don’t like getting vaccinations”.

They would much rather use less well tested, less well approved options for treatment because for whatever reason they don’t trust the vaccine. Although they are happy to point to meta studies which admit their data is of low quality to suggest that such and such an option is “worth taking”.

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Here is a quote from an email I received from a very large healthcare chain in the US.

Getting the COVID vaccine is an important step in stopping the spread of this virus. We know this because over 90% of the patients in our hospitals with COVID have not been vaccinated.

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Local stores have had to lock up the horse / cattle dewormer. (Ivermectin)
People baffle me. They’ll guzzle livestock dewormer and end up in the E.R. because apparently you can go blind or something, but a fully verified by the F.D.A. product is “untrustworthy”.

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As I said there is “some” evidence that ivermectin (for Humans, it is an FDA approved anti-parasite medicine) may provide some benefit. Supposedly it has some anti-viral properties. But the evidence so far is all “low quality” according to the summary paper I read and it really needs a proper wide scale clinical trial. Otherwise this is an off-label use, and the vaccine is more effective.

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I’d agree on the some evidence and further study warranted. The part that I can’t wrap my head around is people consuming animal grade medicines in quantities suitable for a 1250lb Bull / Cow / Horse.

You can get human grade Ivermectin in human sized dosages from the doctor / pharmacy. People are literally buying a big ol’ bottle of horse wormer and sending themselves to the E.R.

https://www.lamebook.com/stop-horsing-around/

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Actually the AMA and a couple of the pharmacist organisations have come out and explicitly said that “Ivermectin should not be prescribed for Covid-19 unless it is part of a controlled clinical trial”

Of course that just means people will claim to have worms or rosacea or…

I am afraid I agree with them, off label use happens, but clinical trials are a much better option.

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Wait?! Do people actually consume horse dewormer??
I thought that was a meme!!!

That’s basically the Darwin Awards right there, and we should be thanking them for their contribution to humanity :joy:

Putting others at risk because you ignore the science - that’s just not on. Eliminating yourself from the gene pool without hurting anybody else - not my problem. Here in Australia the police can arrest and detain those who refused vaccines and go around without a mask intentionally. That’s not strongarm tactics, that’s acting in the interest of public safety. If you put the public at risk, you are no better than DUI. I think if someone chooses to not be part of society, we have a right to remove them from society.
~ Jamie

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Sadly not.

I wish it were so. Ivermectin is being taken by these idiots as a prophylactic, and they are buying it from feed stores to do so.

So, instead of taking a proven effective, free, vaccine in 1 to 3 injections, they are eating horse dewormer on a daily basis, and paying for it.

I will leave you to decide what you think of that.

Edited to add, you might want to search Google for “are people really eating horse dewormer”

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Ivermectin is used to treat parasites in both people and livestock.

The trouble is that people are grasping at miracle cures and because Ivermectin for people is a prescription drug (mostly unavailable for what these people want to use it for), they’re getting the livestock version which is at a much higher dosage, and consuming it in an manner and rate that has poisoned a number of people.

Cause you know, vaccines are sooo dangerous! :roll_eyes: