Severe fear of needles, knives, and anything going into my body so implants is a hard-no, but I recently stumbled onto the fact there are now some wearable things that sound very interesting. I haven’t had much luck so far though, and have a few questions.
My dream would be on trips being able to have something on my body to open a hotel room without setting everything down and digging thru my wallet or if I don’t have pockets (in costume, swimsuit, etc). I came close with a NFC bracelet (which was a bit fiddly but worked) but it looks kinda funny wearing a bracelet with a random oval in it especially worn next to a watch. My dream would be if I could have something to slip over my watch-band (or a NFC/RFID enabled watch band), but a finger ring would be a close second. I’ve also pondered if I could get an implant and somehow silicone or embed the capsule into a watch band to roll my own, but I believe I need to figure out how to get things working reliably at all first.
Before I learned Dangerous Things had rings I’d already got a NFC ring off Amazon which though I successfully cloned a Mifaire Classic card to, so far has been a failure not being detected (not pass, not fail, no acknowledgement of anything) at all by any hotel locks I’ve tried (though works on a proxmark3 and smartphone). This has made me nervous spending more on the DT ring in case its not any better or if its user-error (like not being held in just the right spot or angle).
I’ve also recently discovered the Dangerous Things X Field Detector, though it sounds like its been out of stock for quite a while. Anyone know if it may come back? Would that help me maybe figure out some of the issues with not being able to get a ring to read?
And anything else anyone has suggestions I’d be interested. I also want to generally learn more about how RFID and NFC cards/systems work in general, but that’s more a curiosity at this point. I do have a Flipper Zero, but find the Proxmark3 (which I actually got after the Flipper) more reliable (if harder to learn) thus far.
I won’t waste my time trying to convince you…but you really should get an implant and join the Kool Kids
This is understandable, Though I can’t guarantee that the Magic Ring will work on the locks you are trying it on, But I CAN tell you that I have a FlexM1gen2 which uses the same tech as the MagicRing, and I use my FlexM1 a lot a a number of hotel doors in a number of countries.
I use the MCT app with mine, and I have had great success.
The antenna form factor is different from the ring to the flex, but in theory the Magic Ring SHOULD work for you
Not really for your situation
They are great for identifying which freq a lock is using, but they are best suited for finding the orientation that an xSeries should be presented to a lock
I don’t know too much about wearables, but the LF field detector is still in stock. I think I might have a HF one sitting at home. I could send it to you if you’d like, I don’t use it since I’ve got a few of the RDC cards. I keep breaking those though by being a bit too rough with my wallets haha
Check out the xAC or access controller roller. Nifty little device you can use to make your projects incorporate RFID. People have used them for unlocking cars, safes, doors, etc.
If you did get an implant bundle…you would get LF HF detectors and RDC
You’ll probably do less LEARNING with the Flipper, and more DOING, the PM3 would be better to learn with.
My personal experience, I find the Flipper far more reliable and easier to use, and I use it significantly more than the PM3, It’s not often that I need to use my PM3, and when I do, it’s generally to help out somebody else having a problem.
They both have their place in the RFID world, but if you want to learn more, spend your time with the PM3
The flipper is what I use for quick field operation stuff. The pm3 is what I use when I want to do real work or deep dive into a chip. I love my flipper but it is limited in what it can do. The icopy x is nice to if your willing to put in some work so you can use generic cards
I have been bummed with the Flipper mostly because it seems limited in capability and the sensitivity of its NFC/RFID coils seems kinda crap. Until a recent firmware update it didn’t even seem to emulate NFC at all (not even to a phone). SubGHz seems quite handy though for debugging and replaying stuff as I fiddle with home automation and a RTL-SDR so I can more conveniently simulate or test stuff I’m designing.
The Proxmark3 seems rock solid and even putting a fob or card non-precision placement reads 100% of the time, and I like the keyboard command line style UI (as a software engineer its comfortable) but I find it seems the commands vary in syntax from one “fork” to another slightly and I’m struggling to learn the commands. I just wish I didn’t have to bring a whole laptop to use it, the apps I’ve tried for Android haven’t worked properly (then I could use a phone/tablet with keyboard and PM3).
in the field I use a pi zero with auto ap installed to access my pm3 with my phone using ssh works like a dream. I have an rdv4 with Bluetooth and its a nightmare to use so this was my solution if I knew then what I know now I would have never have bought the rdv4
I actually bought a cheap RFID “all in one” lock controller+keypad+reader on eBay (the sucky kind you can pop off the wall and short to bypass) I plan to set up for bench learning stuff, just have to wire it up. My “learning” angle is more curiosity how commercial systems work vs wanting to build my own (I’m one of the nuts who can watch people service elevators, air-conditioners, and antique computers for hours on YouTube and be glued to the finer details)
Last hotel I was at with friends I was surprised to learn (after fighting for HOURS learning how to sniff a conversation and compiling the program to calculate keys) that apparently our keys seemed to use unique sector keys so once I read and successfully dumped my key that didn’t help reading the last essential sectors to unlock a door from a roomate’s key. This surprised me. The “capture nonces” Flipper and the PM3 autopwn also failed on this particular keycard, and although I successfully copied enough to a wristband I still didn’t work out the right PM3 commands to “build” the keyfile and partial-dump the card. I ended up making a Flipper keyfile with what I learned using the PM3 and then reading/copying the keycard with the Flipper (didn’t get all sector keys, but enough it worked, and I’m curious about what that was for still).
I did ponder getting an implant bundle so I could try and roll my own custom watch band or watch band accessory with the capsule…which is how I learned the detectors existed. Still may consider it and just not use the injection part on my body.
That’s unfortunate about the needle fear. I got my first implant in 2019 or so im up to 7 now and could not imagine life without them I use them so much in my day to day at work.
There’s dentists that put you under before they do their work. Wonder if you could go to one next time you need dental work and ask them to install the implants while you’re out cold haha
Yeah…I’m good with a wearable. Its the thought of something going into my body that really freaks me out rather than the needle itself. During the whole pandemic mess when they finally came out with vaccines I didn’t sleep for about 3 days leading up to my shot appointment and nearly had a panic attack while they were going over the various papers and explaining stuff (which was ironic as they tried to explain how its safe and they are experienced with shots and I’m like nah I believe all that, the problem is having to stick it inside me).
Ironically I’m hitting anxiety right now because I have to have a dentist check what I am concerned may be a cavity…and their procedure is to use a hypodermic needle for numbing, not to knock people out.
Something I’ve been strongly considering - something like this, and put the implant capsule in it potted with silicone, so that I could make my wrist-watch into a wearable key
It sounds like its a hallow thing that would accept a RFID chip/antenna assuming its large enough (or the implant is small enough…dunno how big they are)
From my experience, a “Typical” mens watch strap is 22mm wide.
I’m not sure what the inner dimensions of the pocket are, but I imagine they wouldn’t be too far off that
Yeah, and it sounds like the implantable chips are about 14mm so that probably would work decently. Then the question would be which chip to get if I was going to.
I am unsure if they are Actually T5577 chips in EM mode.
If they are T5577, then it would be great as is for a number of projects, and may even work with your test lock.
Even if EM, it might already just need to be enrolled
It wasn’t clear if it comes with a chip, but it sounded from reviews like the chips frequently fall out and get lost so removal should be easy to put in a superior chip of my choice (like the multi-technology implant capsule chips) which could be affixed in with silicone or similar so it doesn’t fall out.
I presume it would come with a cheap non-modifiable EM type chip or similar if it comes with anything. My objective is to be able to add “clone a hotel or similar key to something I already wear” so I am guessing Mifaire Classis MAGIC chip and T5577 would be the most common 2 to want.
Goal is to have a body worn replacement for hotel keys and similar so I could open my room door more easily with full hands, or if I don’t have pockets for a keycard (e.g. wearing a costume, swimsuit, etc). I often wear a watch, so that was the logical first thing to wish I could add it to.
Do you know if there is good information about what the NTAG216 chips are vs the Magic Mifaire?
I’m speculating it will be mostly Mifaire Classic cards (hotel keys) of interest to me but I am unclear if the NTAG216 is like “that and more” newer stuff, or a totally different and incompatible thing?
There are similarities like both are 13.56mhz and ISO14443A standard compliant. But they way they work in terms of memory structure and commands are different. The ntag216 is also NFC type 2 compliant meaning any NFC compliant device (phone, reader, etc) will be guaranteed to be able to read it.
But these are just descriptions of the technical differences. Above you mentioned hotel keys. That is not synonymous with mifare… It’s just one application that many different hotel lock systems decided to use the mifare type of chip for. There are other hotel systems that use other types of chips. It’s important not to equate the underlying technology with the application. Applications are enabled and designed around technologies, not the other way around.
The short short answer here is that many people end up with multiple kinds of implants because they want to be able to interact with many different kinds of systems.
