Upgrades were assimilated. some more successfuly than others

TL;DR: Successfully had my tags installed by a pro, and all work except for one which may be missing. can’t be felt nor read by multiple readers

So today got my 3 implants installed. A spark 2 on my right hand, a xLED HF white on my left and next to it, with more than 5 mm of space a NeXT.

I got it done at a local shop, the guy who was there told me he has installed several and removed a couple, and was pretty experienced with dermal piercings, subdermals, scarification etc. So I trusted him on most of his decisions. He mentioned that all 3 needles were among the dullest he’s encountered.

He also suggested to approach the location from “the other side” that is start at the wrist and go towards the fingers. It worked well for the spark and that one is installed and I have already been able to read it with my phone, the keyboard reader, and my laptop reader , so all happy there.

On the other hand, (no pun intended :b) he did the same but recommended using the same puncture site for both the xLED and the NeXT just angles differently. This all went without problems, but oh my the needle on the xLED is HUUUGE. after what felt like the worst yellowjacket sting I’ve ever felt that one ws also completed. Then the NeXT was implanted the same way.

So far I’m pretty happy with the result, I was able to immediately use the Spark 2 without any problems. [Galaxy S8]. The xLED I couldn’t see until tonight and also appears to be fully ok.

Now the NeXT. No matter what I’ve tried I can’t seem to get it to read. I’ve tried the dangerous things keyboard reader, my phone, the xEM acces controller, My schools multiclass readers[If I hold a NTAG216 they beep]. And to make matters worse I can’t even feel it under my skin.

I can palpate and feel the other 2 without any problems. but that one isn’t anywhere to be felt.
and no matter what reader I use and in which orientation I just can’t get it to read. The installer did depress the plunger fully and he even checked that the needles were empty because even him said “weird I can’t even see the it” after installing it which prompted him to look.
SO now I’m kind of worried. Where is it??? COuld it be possible the needle injector came without one? [unlikely I think], or am I just over reacting about this? [probably?].

My impatience is killing me and I really hope everything is ok,

The swelling has not subsided enough for you to get a good read. Also, the NeXT has two antennas (one on each side). There’s no way to know which side the HF side is on, so once the swelling goes down in a few days try a bunch of different orientations to get a read.

Having the entry angle from the wrist side means it will migrate a few millimeters toward bones while it heals. Keep an eye on all of the implants and make sure they don’t start moving too close to bones.

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Oh so just wait for swelling to reduce and should be able to start reading it? Time to practice my best monk impression and be patient I guess.

However I’m worried I can’t even feel it physically, like I can with the others.

The xLED is the one that’s closest to bone, but has more than half a centimeter from being next to bone. The NeXT who knows.

I just had the same three put in a few weeks ago. I couldn’t feel the NeXT for a full week, and figured the guy put it in way to deep, or it migrated right against a bone. Then one day I was groping around and found it, pretty far away from where I thought it was. My greatest fear was how can I remove it if I don’t know where it is???

Had trouble scanning it with my phone, but it was fine with the keyboard reader. Now that I know where it is, I can hit it with my phone pretty quickly. So I guess just wait a bit and feel for it in a different spot, it’s a lot narrower than the xLED too.

This makes me feel better, I was having the same thoughts, like what if its too deep or next to the bone or something.

Really weird that no device will read it at all I guess I’ll wait and see what happens.

I selfinstalled a NExT and Spark, but still have the xLED in its box (partially because the needle size intimidated me). Might just have to get someone else to stab that in me. Or try an EMLA patch/lido.

Yeah, I’m definitely glad I got someone else to put that one in, the needle does look huuuge lol.

But the glow isn’t much and it’s hard to see when using it against a reader.

I didn’t notice a pain difference with the bigger xLED. It did go from red to white over a week+ as the swelling went down. It’s visible in shadows, but not a lit room. I’ve been carrying around the keyboard reader and a lipstick sized phone charger to show it off. Make sure you install it with the LED facing away from you, the piercer pushed the plunger 1mm to see which side had the LED. It was at the tip so he had to inject it from the other direction into my hand.

Just ordered the magnet which is the same diameter as the xLED, something to show off without carrying something around. Might try a self install… :stuck_out_tongue:

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yep, it was installed away from me, and he reused the big hole made by it for the NeXT, which remains without functioning or being felt or seen.

Glad to hear the xLED will get better without the swelling. I can get it too light up with the keyboard reader.

I have heard this over and over from piercers, so I evaluated the sharpest needles in the piercing industry vs our needles and they are equivalent in angle and cut. Often the problems of “sharpness” have to do with something completely different… see this post;

Where and how are you attempting to get a read with your KBR1 reader? You must position and rotation of the chip must be in line with this orientation;

kbr1

Hmm interesting about lubrication and needles, I wonder if the ones we use for ivs have that.

And yeah I’ve tried numerous orientations including the one you illustrated, I can get a read from my spark 2 on my other hand no problem even when hovering 1 or 2 milimiters above its surface.
I can also get the xled to light up

But no matter what orientation I can’t get the NeXT to be read by either my phone, keyboard reader or the xEM acces controller.
I also still am unable to feel it under the skin at all like I can the other 2.
I understand some said its because of inflammation so fingers crossed.

Yes our needles now have lubricant, but we keep the coating thin to ensure the EO gas sterilization process completes successfully. Huge glops of lube can potentially hide and protect germs and we don’t want that… so to help combat the issue with the back bevel (which is really pronounced on xLED or larger needle insertions), we instruct professionals to;

  • tent the skin… however it appears that professionals that go from wrist toward fingers also do not tent the skin properly, creating an angle that collects skin into the inside of the needle, making the back bevel even more difficult to insert since a “flap” of skin now exists inside the needle and has to be literally bent backward 180 degrees, which ends up under the surface as the needle progresses inward.

  • approach and incise with the bevel down, not up… with the bevel down, the skin will not have a chance to collect inside the needle as the point dives under the surface. this means a much easier insertion overall and no significant “hump” to have to get over as the back bevel passes under the skin. the down side is that the point is now facing up under the skin and if you do not tent the skin properly, then there is a good chance the point will pierce the skin and come out again, or the needle angle needed to avoid such a thing will result in a very deep installation.

One other point I want to make is that processional piercers are usually pushing needles straight through tissue, not burrowing under it, which creates more friction between the needle and skin. They also typically use smaller needles than what we require to place our devices. Both of these circumstances requires they rely more on our instructions than their gut or intuition or past experience to achieve a smooth installation. In short, professionals that go with their own approaches will encounter problems getting the needles under the skin, and they interpret these issues as “these needles aren’t sharp”… but they are equally as sharp as any other needles of similar size.

Well this is disconcerting… you should technically get some kind of read with the KBR1… however… since the install was beside an xLED which used a much larger needle, and was also done using the same incision (through the same hole), I think there is a big possibility that the amount of tissue damage done (swelling) and pooled blood are creating a difficult situation.

I would stop trying to palpate the area… that will only keep things irritated and might cause problems with migration. Give it several days before you attempt to read again with the kbr1. Also consider that the orientation of the NExT may have changed a bit so you might need to adjust your angle… but again, the most important thing is to wait about a week for everything to cool down.

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So he did tent the skin, a lot, at least an inch or so even while advancing the needle, and he also did all of them bevel down. I remmeber because I commented on it and he said that he always does big needles bevel down to prevent the skin flap issue you mentioned. Reason I trusted his judgment is he has implanted them before and has experience with subdermals, transdermals etc

Yeah I figured I’d be able to at least read it or feel it under the skin or something but o well fingers crossed :crossed_fingers:

As far as swelling and pooled blood there is some very mild swelling and no visible blood pooling.

Lol I meant at work putting ivs on people, never had heard of lubrication on needles before.

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Interesting… well, think he’d be willing to send us some of his sharp needles of similar size I can do some analysis?

I can dm you his contact info if you want and get in contact with him.

I heard from someone I know who did a self install that as soon as they removed the clothes peg, in combination with the hand position, and the gush of blood, he saw the chip exit right out in a little blood stream. He somehow managed to get the thing back in and his chip works just fine… I wonder if by using the bigger hole created by the bigger needle something like this could’ve happened? For what it’s worth I had a similar situation with mine, it took well over a week for the chip to be easily read, even though I can see it through my skin. The fact that I kept pushing my phone up against it to try to read it made it swell up even more and worsened the whole thing. Maybe let it rest and heal and if still nothing, get an X-ray?

No way it could’ve come out, I had very very little bleeding definetly nothing like a rush of blood, and I saw the whole thing.

I knwo the needles were fully depressed so no chance the chip stayed there either. And the weird thing is it doesn’t feel at all like I got the chip there and I still can’t read it.

And yeah I’ll probably give it like 2 weeks and if still nothing I’ll guess I’ll have to go in for xrays.
I figure there are only 2 options, each more unlikely than the next.
Either 1, it’s in there but too deep to be felt or scanned, or B, the needle injector came unloaded, I don’t think that ever been the case so figures

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SO its been one week and still can’t get any read from the NExT either with my phone, the KBRD1 or the xEM acces controller.

I can’t event feel it. I really do think there’s nothing there :frowning_face:

Can’'t see or feel it, no ,matter what I do also can’t get it to be read.
Guess ill give it one more week before really worrying.

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Bizzare, :confused: the thing that stands out to me is the xEM access controller not “seeing” it because the read range is so good due to the antenna.
I hope it sorts itself out :+1:

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I’m wishing you luck!
I dont know your situation so xrays may not be an option, but you may have to consider it.

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