Use-Case/Project Indexing

Someone stop me if this already exists, but I’d like to see an index of all the things people do with their nfc and rfid implants. Seems simple enough to make, a living document just like the one that lists compatible door locks. I know we have the project category in the forum but how nice would it be to just see a list of ideas and projects. It could serve as a reference to those looking to learn or as inspiration for those looking for something new to do. l I’m not sure if I’m the best person to get it done but if noone volunteers I’ll do it.

I’d like to see a webpage or just an excel document that breaks down into several categories and other information. A simple title and description could start it off. Categories like project type (like automation, physical security, electronic security, read/write tutorials, novelty, LED, etc) would be good as well as tag type would follow. And most importantly links to project pages, supporting documentation, etc for each entry must be included.

Say for example I want to add access control to my home office or my front door. I open the index and bam there’s already 10 projects with how-to’s that I can reference. Or maybe I want to add an nfc activated ignition to my motorcycle, I could find a how to there. The creativity of this community is endless and we should be cataloging it.

Then there’s also the reason I started looking, I want to know all the different things people do with the ndef on their tags. My own ideas revolve around expanding data capability by writing a URL pointing to my own web services and including parameters on my tag that act as authentication and as inputs to my web server so that my nfc tag does more than open a web page. Any source code I create could be cataloged, as well as any other open source project or blueprints could be cataloged so that the do-it-yourselfers don’t have to reinvent the wheel.

Think of how or allows people to easily access knowledge. That’s what I want to accomplish here, albeit on a smaller scale.

If this already exists, then great, but if not let me know what you all think!

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The closest thing I had in mind was a while ago was creating something similar to the Phone Wiki.

But it would be in the project section and broken down into categories similar to what you suggested.
Kind of a contents page for projects.

I was to ask Amal about putting it in the project intro.

I never got around to putting a draught together, because I wasn’t sure if there would be much appetite for it.
Considering the forum search function works pretty well.

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One of them, “I just want to know EVERYTHING that is possible” questions.

Sounds like a great idea TBH

Thing is, what can you do with NFC? What can you do with a UID, it really depends on how people can get creative with their implants.

Most of people thinks:

  • open locks (doors, safes, etc)
  • Login to website services (UID not secure, or VivoKey Encrypted login)
  • Access a computer/mobile device (again UID not secure or a custom made login system)
  • Quick access to employees, patients, customers, etc records with the chips (again, UID not secure, or VivoKey secure)
  • Start vehicles, cars, bikes, scooters, etc

Most of this things require some little knowledge of programing / electronics.

But if you are not so comfortable with programming, you can create smart home automatizations.

Scan your chip and turn on/off a light or more creative triggers.
(example) My wife has a trigger on her iPhone,
she is the type of girl that likes to set up about 30 alarms to wake up before work.
So instead of going trough a list switching the button ON ON ON ON… before sleeping
she put them on an automatization list to turn them all on, and all off.
Then depending on the hour of the day that the chip is scanned it will either turn them all on or all off.

Also if its between certain time 12-2pm it will actually open Uber Eats and Turn on the Apple TV cuz is break time.

With automatizations you can do a lot if you have the patience to learn how to set them up and creativity to make your own automatizations on the phone. And you don’t need special readers or program microcontrollers, etc.

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That’s my main thought as well…

I mean… on one hand, would be neat to see a comprehensive index for all the projects and uses we have here…

On the other hand, would probably feel like “an extra layer of complexity” which could quickly fall into disuse?

Even for a newcomer, would be great to be able to see all the things they can do! but most might actually feel overwhelmed or get misleaded.

Also, if we are meant to get that thorough, this list will become insanely huge!
I mean…

You can basically do anything and everything with NFC these days:

  • gain access to anything that requires any form of access
  • activate anything that can be activated
  • share anything that can be shared
  • automate anything that can be automated
  • track anything that can be tracked
  • control anything that can be controlled through increments

So… yeah, I also feel like this can be a great initiative, but can see how quickly this can grow out of hand to the point of becoming information clutter. :woman_shrugging:


Pretty much why I didn’t start it.
I felt it was one of those better in theory than practice.
But also I could see how it would work.

Next time I’m at a PC I will throw together a rough layout of what I was thinking


Right with you there! :smile:

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At first yes appetite would be small, but it will grow I think. And while the forum excels at the Q and A aspect. I find it as a platform difficult to reliability provide detailed instruction because it is not designed for tutorials.

As a newcomer, I naturally will feel this way. I suspect many newcomers do. Perhaps a wiki with basic tutorials would be a good start - similar to how Proxmark does their wiki.

Yes all these options are our there, but one has to go to many places to find them. Spread across this forum, github, private blogs, etc, all these projects exist. And many times searching results in finding people who showcase their work but not a step by step on how to get it done. I know it won’t be easy for one person to collate this information but a collaboration on a wiki would be doable provided enough people contribute.

I’d also like to be able to give my source code to others here. Perhaps sharing libraries for services and APIs may be a little above and beyond but someone will appreciate it eventually. I think a good knowledge base will help the community grow bigger and stronger.

I don’t feel this way. Even if it is not used much now, I cannot tell you the number of times while googling I’ve come across decades old projects and code tutorials that helped me learn something new. Also, even though I am experienced in many forms of tech, as a doityourselfer I feel quite intimidated to learn how to be a maker or builder in this field.

For example when I search ‘how to automate door’ I get some expected results but also things that indicate a need for a how to section as well as unrelated results. Sometimes I feel like I have to go into the rabbit hole to find things.

Perhaps this is too ambitious, or perhaps there’s an easier way?

Is it possible to add sub-tags to the main categories? For example I could look up Q and A or projects for just nfc or just a specific chip. Or could we tag project posts here with tags like ‘automation’ or any of the common categories as listed above?

My thoughts

I dont think reliability is the issue, but more the format used to present it.
The forum can be used and I think quite suitably with a couple of considerations.

Indeed Discourse is not the best platform, but I think shifting it external to the Forum would be a little less clean therefore making the forum the better option.

I have had 2 things in mind for quite some time but they are a huge undertaking.
It is a big commitment in both time and effort.

I would want to be 100% certain it would be used before personally committing to it.

I know it can work,
I know it will be better than what we currently have,
What I don’t know is, if it will be worth the effort :man_shrugging:
Don’t get me wrong, I am happy to freely give up my time to help anybody that asks a question, So I wouldn’t want to do a half arsed approach to an alternative, and the alternative I am thinking about would also be a BIG undertaking and VERY time consuming.

Basic concept:
Get a new category approved and set up by Amal.
Contents page (Intro post) as “described” in my previous post.linking to projects within the thread.
following a set template, Convert / Build some of the previous projects into “Instructables” style format. (Possibly saved as .pdf)
Locked would mean, people would have to submit their content for “approval”.

I wonder if comments and questions would fuck the flow up, which is why I think a locked thread would be better.
Not having it locked, brings in the questions, which in turn takes us roughly back to were we are now. And it is “too difficult” for people to read through and filter out the essential information.

Time to contradic myself here.

Alternatively a
“Dangerous Things Instructables”
built on Wordpress with Optional Vivokey Login would be good.
But not sure If Amal would want to host and/or have the time to build this platform.

Yet another option could be actually using Instructables and just hyperlink to projects from the forum “contents page”

Anyway thats my thoughts out loud,
As you can see i am all over the place on this
because I have been thinking about it for a while now.
I am not sure how others feel about it or yourself @D34G if that falls in line with what you were thinking…

Ambitious YES, but still doable.

I hope so.

I think a database would be the best platform for the lookup at least, but it still needs something to lookup.

A flow diagram or sequential drop down would quickly get you to a result…but again it still needs those results.

All that to say


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I’ve seen some sites, like nexusmods, do something similar to this. maybe a new category here would work. On XDA forums anyone can create a thread just like here but the difference is the OP can edit the post whenever they want, whether to update the thread or close it or whatever. The users follow up with updates, questions, testing, etc. If Discourse can allow the OP to do that then the tutorial can be put up as the first post. OP can give permission to others to edit the post, and as always mods can lock, unlock as needed. Would this be more your style? I take it you’re the webmaster for this site.

Here you hit right where the nail lies in the coffin of most startups! :wink:

Appetites only grow out of their comfort zones if such growth is easier.

Proxmark is one (and only one) “product” which also depends on people learning how to use them.

DT has a myriad of products which in most cases don’t need even a proxmark level of knowledge, so I can see why it wouldn’t be that worthy for them to put the insane amount of effort needed.

This is also a good point we need to pay attention.

The way this forum works would get a lot of people showcasing their work, or putting in some effort to help someone’s queries… but most people would not have the time and availability to build a step by step guide.

Take me as an example… I would gladly spend 20 hours a week in this forum dedicated to helping someone out, spread in a bunch of 5 to 20 minute bursts. Because those bursts would be relaxing and provide me with much needed mental rest from working.

I would not so easily spend 10 hours building a step by step guide on that topic.

It’s half the time? yes (hypothetically. It usually takes way more than only 10 hours of work to build a good step by step tutorial).
But even being way less time, it’s still “work” time.
It’s no longer relaxing.

Not to mention that it becomes then an isolated effort.
I sit alone. I write alone. I post alone. Then I massage my ego alone.

While we’re all chipping in into answers to a same thread it all becomes a lot more organic and humane.
It connects people, conversation evolves…
That is what makes the forum so alive!!

And also so up to date! :wink:

It’s not above and beyond, actually. loads of people do that! but that’s what github is there for. :wink:

The way I see it, here is the place where you can ask “where to look”. Then people would point you at the github repos.

Note that I’m not trying to debunk the Idea. I do like your whole concept. But this github is just a good example of looking analytically about how things are right now, so we know how much more effort would it take for people to adapt into using/building new content here…

Because if we make it too much effort, people just won’t, and I can’t blame them.

Completely agree with you here!

I also have to agree with you there.
Which doubles up the issue of Discourse not being a good platform for that model.

This is a perfect example of the exact point I made above.

Agree, once more.

Here it’s more than just time. There would also be an onus to maintenance. Not only the technical side of it…

If it’s something where DT has a name behind it, it’ll also have need of curation to some extent, least it blows back onto DT.

Ultimately, you will also need to keep producing content.
Decline in content production leads to less content consumption, which reduces the drive towards content… and it becomes a downward spiral.

Also, having the threads locked would reduce engagement… (although I don’t see it working if they are not locked. we fucking derail everything here!!)

We can do that here as well.
In fact most of the “step by step” threads we have on the forum are done using that approach.

Still goes too much against the engagement style of the forum…
And bears the question:

Who would be donating so much of their time to fill it up?
Of course a few of us would, but not nearly with enough tenacity as needed to gain a new momentum.

Again, not arguing against… just raising up the issues such an enterprise would stumble upon. In hopes we can devise how to keep standing. :wink:


You just gave me an idea, I want to put something together to show you what I have in mind as an appropriate example. Until then I’ll table further debate on the matter. Btw, you are right, there is definitely the investment/timing side to consider, it sounds like there is much wisdom in your opinion.

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eloquent as usual

Nope, Just another idiot with an arsehole opinion

Indeed, and as is needed for advancement, there are always more questions than answers…

I know what you mean, but just to be clear, I view a debate as opposing viewpoints, there is no opposition. I / we want this to happen also.
The same reason why early on my joining the forum I put together a bunch of Wikis, to fill the gap where previously there was a void.

Looking forward to it
If done correctly this could be “slick as fuck”

We already know the answers to:-
What: This
Why: Obvious
Who: The community

My standpoint is more the:-
Where: ?
How: ?
When: This will be dictated by the Where and How

My 2p is that it will add clutter unless you did something like tags but that won’t work for posts / threads already there. Personally the search feature is more than enough for 90% of people litterally use keywords and it works great.

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Was there some sarcasm I sense? :laughing:
If not, should’ve been! :yum:

Despite me agreeing that “Why” is obvious… it is also a bit tricky.

As in… even if there is an obvious gain from it, I’m not entirely convinced everyone else would be interested in such gain.

There is a big imbalance here:

  • The ones with the most interest in a shift to that format are also the ones with the least capacity to contribute to it.
  • The ones with the most capacity to contribute to it, have the least interest.

To illustrate, I’ll take @Devilclarke’s point, since it’s spot on:

I completely agree here!
If you know which keywords to use, the search feature is amazing!

Problem arises when someone is completely fresh to all this and don’t know which words to use.

But then… kinda very quickly they learn what to search for… and we have now a third category:

  • The ones with only moderate interest into the new format, and still not able to contribute much.

And I think that imbalance must be addressed first.

Another good example I thought of while talking to an apprentice yesterday…
Sometimes it’s not even about “not knowing how to search”…
It’s about not recognising the answers.

I very often see apprentices reaching a very good post on stack overflow with a perfect, easy to follow, step by step answer to their own question.

They look at it and jump to another post, then come to me and ask again, complaining they couldn’t find an answer.

I usually ask them to go back to the very first answer they found, and ask them to read it aloud to me.
That is more often than not enough to make them realise that that post actually did have not only the answer, but also the step by step guide they were looking for.

And this is a skill everyone can develop, but which development is hindered by easy-to-access tutorials, Ironically. :woman_shrugging:

But when I say key words were litterally talking about filtering by project section then typing lock or toolbox or safe or car

It really isn’t learning keywords for this community it what do you want to do.

Yet that takes a ridiculous amount of skill which we seldom appreciate.

For example, look at these 2 searches, here on the forum:

On the left, I used the same terms that @D34G used:

On the right, you have how I would search for exactly the same theme.

I guess it’s easy to spot the difference, right? especially when you look into the third result on the right.

By attempting to be more specific, the search on the left ends up “polluting” the search algorithm.

This particular skill even gained a name: “Google Fu

What bites is that each subject, sometimes each community, will have a set of keywords you must learn how to use.

Going back to our current example… “automate” is a polluting term when you’re searching NFC related stuff, because almost every topic will use that word somehow.

Meanwhile, if you go to a forum about DIY carpentry, then “automate” might be the best keyword to use, because very few projects will have it.

I don’t see any need to make a “self-serve” project matrix. I feel the search function is more than adequate and you don’t need special keywords for most cases.

If you end up not finding what you’re looking for, feel free to post a question. That’s kinda the whole point of having a community, you help each other. That is one piece of feedback we always get about the DT forums is that everyone is really helpful. Why depersonalize that with a spreadsheet that will inevitably become out of date?

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Wrong approach.

Normally one wants an implant to do something - “I want to pay for things”, “I want to start my car”, “I want to unlock my front door”, “I want me some cosmetic shiny under my skin”… then researches if it’s doable, then researches how.

A list of use cases means you know you want an implant but you don’t know what for :slight_smile: