Various questions about the flex implants and Vivokey


#1

So, I have some various questions I was hoping I could get some answers to. Mostly regarding the flex implants.

  • Are the various flex implants in any way visible under the skin? I’m mostly referring to the hand/fingers. I would imagine this depends on how skinny your fingers are and where the implant is located, but I was hoping I could get a rough answer.
    I measured my middle finger to have a diameter of about 18-20 mm at the widest between the knuckle and the first joint, would it be possible to implant a flex tag there? Would it be visible under the skin? (I know it says on the product page that customers are urged to find another location, but the fingers are such accessible spots when it comes to readers).

  • Is it uncomfortable to touch where a flex implant is implanted (after healing)? What about light hits or rubbing the skin above?

  • Can the flex implants be felt under the skin when you move your hand or fingers?

  • Have there been made any tests on the flex implants (MRI safe, airport scanners, etc.) like there has been on the x-series?

Finally I have a few questions about the Vivokey.

  • Any news regarding the chip for the Vivokey? I know NXP has been delaying the chip for the Vivokey multiple times, but last I heard they promised september.

  • What are the expected dimensions of the Vivokey?


FlexDF locations and vivokey
#2

Ok here we gooooooo…

Are the various flex implants in any way visible under the skin?

For the most part, no… but it really depends on location and tissue tension. More on that below…

I’m mostly referring to the hand/fingers. I would imagine this depends on how skinny your fingers are and where the implant is located, but I was hoping I could get a rough answer.

You’re correct, it really depends on if there is tension or not. If the tag can lay flat under your skin and not cause any tension, it will be invisible, and in some cases undetectable even if you poke at yourself.

I measured my middle finger to have a diameter of about 18-20 mm at the widest between the knuckle and the first joint, would it be possible to implant a flex tag there?

You could fit a flexNT but not likely a flexDF or VivoKey. Back of the hand or arm above the wrist is recommended in those cases. In fact, the finger is not recommended at all… it is a very difficult place to work for an artist, with very tight work area and close proximity to tendons… it’s just a difficult place to work. I happened to put the first flexNT there because i thought it was a convenient placement… and I could fist-bump readers.

Would it be visible under the skin?

Mine is not visible. Other people who have them in fingers don’t seem to have issue with them showing either.

Is it uncomfortable to touch where a flex implant is implanted (after healing)? What about light hits or rubbing the skin above?

I’ve had no issues what-so-ever after it’s fully healed. I’ve not heard of anyone else having issues either. However if the install is not a good one, and the tag is off-center or rotated - basically causing tension under the skin - then there will be problems and it will likely have to come out. One person has had this situation crop up and after months of sharp pains when moving certain ways or bumping it, the flexNT was removed and the finger healed nicely.

Can the flex implants be felt under the skin when you move your hand or fingers?

The tendon does move under the finger, but it’s in a sheath that keeps its movement isolated. The flexNT rests above this sheath and cannot be felt when I move or flex my finger.

Have there been made any tests on the flex implants (MRI safe, airport scanners, etc.) like there has been on the x-series?

No MRI testing has been done on flex devices, primarily because the x-series are so much more risky than the flex when it comes to MRI exposure. An x-series has copper wire instead of traces, but that wire is wound around a ferrite rod. The amount of magnetically saturatable material in an x-series transponder that could be heated or pulled on by an MRI’s magnetic field is extremely high when compared to the materials inside a flex tag.

As far as the airport goes, I’ve been through several airport security checkpoints with 3 x-series, 2 flex, and an m31 magnet in my body… no issues. I once did get a hit on a high-strung metal detector though… it was the m31 that tripped it up, but the guy couldn’t find it with the handheld wand, so he let me pass.

Any news regarding the chip for the Vivokey? I know NXP has been delaying the chip for the Vivokey multiple times, but last I heard they promised september.

Still on track for September. Just talked to my NXP contact about it yesterday.

What are the expected dimensions of the Vivokey?

At this point, the same as the flexDF. That’s not likely to change, but it’s not finalized yet either.


#3

Thank you very much for the answers! That certainly makes it easier to choose a location for the tag. Now I just need to find someone who can do the implant (closest one on the partner map is unfortunately at least 4 hours away…)

I actually meant to say that I last heard July as for the chip, but nice to hear it’s on track for September :slight_smile:

Also, does it matter at all if the tags are placed on top of veins?

I realize this is probably a question for Fidesmo, but do you happen to know if Fidesmo plans on launching a card with the same chip as the Vivokey?


#4

This really depends on tissue structure at the implant site. I have my VivoKey prototype resting under a vein due ot the way the vein crossed the target area.

I believe so. I can’t confirm it, but I can’t see why they wouldn’t.


#5

Sorry for all the questions :slight_smile:

Can you expand on that? I was envisioning placing an implant on the back of my left hand to the very left between my little finger and the wrist. There’s a vein running down the hand where I imagine the implant, running parrallel to the implant. The vein is close enough to the skin that I can see it and for it to bulge out a tiny bit. Does that sound like a suitable location or would the vein get in the way?


#6

No worries… questions are good!

In this scenario it sounds like the implant should go under the vein… but nobody can really make that call until your skin is literally being held up with an elevator so a professional can take a look in there and make that call. It’s best to avoid veins all together but sometimes it can’t be helped. One of the more important things is to understand if the implant would ever be moved in such a way that would cause the edge of it to apply pressure to the vein. The edge of flex implants isn’t “sharp”, but it is thin and abrupt… It might cause damage or at least fatigue to the vein… not a good scenario… But the same could easily happen if you place the implant over the vein… It’s just a call the professional needs to make at the time of the install.


#7

I couldn’t find one near me on the map but it wasn’t to hard to find a local tattoo shop that had done them in the past so just ask around