This thread, and many similar threads on this here forum, as well as my own struggle to find devices that work with my implants, and to find implants that work with the devices I want to interfact with, and to figure out how and how well they work, tells me there should be some sort of community-fed compatiblity matrix on a wiki somewhere.
Something like a table with the following columns:
Reporter
Device type [e.g. USB desktop reader, security system reader, battery-powered lock…]
Device maker [e.g. ACS, HID, Yale…]
Device name [e.g. ACR122, Proximity Classic Readers 603, Doorman V2N…]
Tested implants [e.g. xSIID, xNT, NeXt, FlexDF, xEM…, other non-DT NFC, other non-DT 125kHz, other non-DT 134kHz)
Ease of use with glass implants [e.g. Easy, Reasonable, Difficult, Very difficult, Impossible]
Ease of use with flex implants [e.g. Easy, Reasonable, Difficult, Very difficult, Impossible]
Relevant DT threads
Comment
Why so many fields you ask?
For the reporter field, you may have several reporters for the same device, with different implants and different implant sites, with different experiences using the device
For the device maker / device name / mfg product code, USB VID/PID, that’s to identify precisely exactly what device / version version the reporter owns or tried. Manufacturers with bad habits tend to release products with different PCBs and/or firmware that look identical and bear the same name, but don’t all work as well. I have a very expensive desktop USB reader here that’s as useful as a brick, because I have the new version that doesn’t work as well as the older one, but you can’t tell them apart.
For the stuff the reporter doesn’t know, they can just leave it blank.
The matrix would be kind of identical to this one, only much more precise as far as identifying the device, and focused on practical usability rather than just “does it work”. More importantly, it’d filled out by contributors on a wiki instead of being maintained by @Amal, who probably doesn’t have time for that
We all have experience with a variety of devices we use every day, and someone who’s looking at getting an implant to use with a particular device, or conversely, get a particular device to use with their particular implants, could quickly know how it pans out for us who have already tried it.
I know it would have saved me a shitload of time and money perusing websites, then buying devices based on what I read that I was “almost” certain would work but didn’t when I got them in the mail.
Pretty much What I have suggested in a few of threads already, like one 17 days ago and another one about 2 hours ago
Pretty similar to what you are suggesting is a Wiki I have already started. ( Currently hidden until I format it and finalize on the design ) SEE BELOW
I did consider adding house door products etc, But I hadn’t decided if it would be better in its own wiki or in the “Work access” wiki, potentially added at a later date because there may be no need with the community driven doorlock project
I also considered to leave it open for the community to edit, but my concern was to keeping it tidy and follow a set format for ease of Navigation
I also suggested the idea of a matrix, but I find the tables a pain to do in discourse but still a possibility
However, I didn’t consider an ease of use “scale” which is a good idea.
Below is what I have already made a start on…
Rough edit/ Sample Here
Contained within this living document, is known Security access systems and the compatible Dangerous things implants.
If you have an example to share, please PM me and I will add it to the Wiki
Please copy and paste and fill out this dropdown ( as much as you can ) that will be appreciated.
Access systems Model
A link to the compatible implant
A photo of the card / fob
A photo of the access panel.
A link to a thread (s) where it has been utilized
Or a how-to guide
Hopefully, a search of your Building access system has brought you here.
Below are a list and examples of:-
Re keeping it tidy, don’t bother: wikis sort themselves out when contributors are intelligent enough, and usually they go dead pretty quickly when you try to edit them. It doesn’t matter if there are 15 entries for the same device: people can quickly get a feel of what different people think of the device. Actually, if you tried to clean up the database, you’d lose that raw information.
No need to apologise
they were "hidden amongst a couple of threads / posts and also the Wiki was ACTUALLY Hidden.
You are probably correct, I was going to sift and find the info from old threads to build up the “database” myself and any new posts I was going to direct to the Wiki so they could collate the info… Like you say It might be pushing shit uphill
FYI I also have another ( Hidden ) Wiki, it is a step up from the “beginners guide” as an “Advanced guide” explaining Chips, Protocols standards etc
Pretty dry and boring so it is taking me a while…
The thing with wiki pages is, you set them up, lay out some ground rules, then you let other people do the work. If you try to police them, moderate them or clean them up, they go stale.
If I were you, I’d just make a sample page with your own entries in it, publish it and let it fill itself up
Well, the internet is already a gigantic mess. The information is out there for us implantees, but the S/N ratio is so low you literally need dozens of hours to find out if this or that obscure device you’re interested in interacting with would work with this or that chip you could implant and how. If you make a simple open wiki page, it’ll be a mess but with a much higher S/N ratio. And crucially, it’ll minimize your own time working on it: pages that need someone’s intervention invariably end up dead when that person moves on.
And gee, if you want to make a prettied up guide or compatibilty matrix later on, you’ll have the raw wiki page to get all the information from
I was however just going to scour this forum and find the threads where people have asked about their work access and have been helped through to a succesful solution, I do remember I few of them, I just need to find them
FYI- I know there are inaccuracies, things in the wrong place and missing information… I still have a bit of work to do…
But if you are interested
WIKI – Frequency, Chips, Protocols and standards explained
Here is the Work in progress
Hi Lounge team, I am thinking about making another WIKI, with a level up explaining as the title says. Before I spend any more time on it, Let me know if you think it is worth pursuing, and feel free to add suggestions or edit as you see fit! Still A LOT of work to do on it, this is just a placeholder for living document.
.
.
. The goal of this Wiki is to condense the information contained within, for the beginner to intermediate user, to expand their further understanding of Chips, Protocols and Standards used in implants.
ANATOMY OF AN IMPLANT
xSeries
cylindrical sterile bioglass implant
x-series chips have a cylindrical coil antenna wrapped around a ferrite rod encased in biosafe resin I WILL ADD NICER ARROWS AND LABELS TO DIAGRAMS
Chip, antenna, enclosure etc
And hopefully a higher Res Photo
Flex Series
flexible biopolymer package
coated in USP Class VI, ISO 10993 tested biopolymer which gives it an extremely thin profile and semi-flexible structure
.
.
.
PRODUCT MATRIX
DISCOURSE HANDLES TABLES WEIRDLY, I WILL NEED TO WORK ON THIS
Dangerous Things Website has a more detailed and Informative Product Matrix
Image as an example
(ATA5577C) also referred to as t557x on the Proxmark
T5577 is an RFID chip that can emulate many different types of 125kHz chip types
EM41xx,
EM4200,
HID 1326
ProxCard II,
HID 1346
ProxCard III
Indala
AWIA.
The T5577 does not support “tear protection”
The T5577 has password protection functions to block reconfiguration by accident or malicious attack.
NTAG216
7 byte UID and 886 bytes of user read/write memory
10 year data retention. Rated for 100k writes per memory block. Data Sheet
S50
S50 Mifare Classic S50 1K chip. This chip type is ISO14443A compliant but is not NFC compliant xM1 13.56mhz S50 (Mifare Classic 1K)
The xM1 is a high frequency 13.56MHz transponder based on the Mifare Classic S50 1K chip. This chip type is ISO14443A compliant but is not NFC compliant. The xM1 has 768 bytes of user programmable memory and also supports Crypto1 security features. The xM1 is supported only on some NFC devices which contain a reader chip from NXP. While the xM1 will work with any ISO14443A reader, including our PN532 reader, it cannot be expected to work reliably with all NFC devices. We supply the xM1 for people who have a specific need for this particular chip type. https://forum.dangerousthings.com/uploads/short-url/5dvQpEwbU3ac41o2JFzorvHcs86.pdf
DesFire EV1
Memory
Encryption
DesFire EV2
Memory
Encryption
P71 SmartMX3 chip
P71 SmartMX3 chip, Vivokey Apex
Memory
Encryption
.
.
.
*PROTOCOLS*
NFC – Near Field Communication is a set of communication protocols
( NDEF ) NFC Data Exchange Format is a standardized data format that can be used to exchange information between any compatible NFC device and another NFC device or tag. The data format consists of NDEF Messages and NDEF Records
All of the HF implants are NFC compliant with the exception of the M1 family ( xM1, FlexM1 gen1a, FlexM1 gen2 )
Mifare S50 1K tag is also a passive RFID tag that also operates at 13.56MHz and is also ISO14443A, but it is not NFC compliant
.
.
.
*STANDARDS*
ISO - International Organization for Standardization ( French )
EM4102
ISO14223 ISO11784/85 Animal ID and ISO 18000-2 AIDC
ISO11784/5
ISO15693 – Vivokey Spark (Original)
ISO14443A
.
.
.
GLOSSARY
ISO - International Organization for Standardization ( French )
RFID - is an initialism for Radio Frequency IDentification
We used to use a wiki at my work, but it got super unruly as we grew so we’ve developed a custom solution that you might find neat. It doesn’t use discourse but if you think it’s neat maybe we can talk to Amal about it.
I’ll PM it to you, and anyone else interested just let me know.
so it is taking me a while…
explaining as the title says. Before I spend any more time on it, Let me know if you think it is worth pursuing, and feel free to add suggestions or edit as you see fit! Still A LOT of work to do on it, this is just a placeholder for living document.
