Wow. I have never been. I am doing the last family holiday this Christmas (kids finished school and uni), going east to west, but we stop in Barcelona. I tried to sort it but it was just too expensive for four.
Enjoy!
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And work or pleasure???
Or secret stuff AIs canāt talk about! Lol
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I should probably go into some of the cultural aspects that bother me in greater depth one day. However, I got another reason to drink about today:
I walked to my local mall which is already covered in Christmas lights and there was this crazy bastard with a white beard at the entrance fighting the security guard demanding for the Christmas lights to be turned offā¦
But I can, you are in Portugalā¦ And I should probably move to Europe, Iām fed up with Latin America.
For some reason, my parents and close family love South America, itās collectivism which is a fancy word for immaturity and enmeshment at a cultural level, and all the nonsense that comes with the inability to see others as separate individuals. This explains the noisy neighbors, it also explains the corruption as this is something that deepens the enmeshment and loyalty between government workers, politicians, etcā¦
I feel suffocated by latino culture. However, Iām thankful that I was lucky enough to grow up past it. Part of it was the American schools and speaking three languages. Another part comes from my effort to pick up the pieces, grow up, repair the damage, and not let myself get destroyed after getting dragged through a cult as a teenagerā¦
At the end of the day, Iām a westerner. This is my actual culture, and as you might imagine most of my friends are either American or European, with few being rebels from third world places.
Enjoy the fado, the cafes, and culture of a place thatās about as individualistic as the US:
Anyways, if I keep talking about my frustrations with the parts of the world south of the Darien gap, Iām going to need something significantly stiffer than beerā¦ Although Panama is just collectivist, so the Darien gap doesnāt mean much culturally.
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Andorra is a 2 hr drive, or 3hr Bus ride away.
Pleasure.
I went to the Antipodes of my house.
Some mistakes were made
Did I use a lot of fuel - you betcha
Did it cost a lot of time I couldnt spare - Yup
Mission Accomplished?
Fuck yeah
12,947 kilometres a single, unique point on the planetās surface opppsite my house that completes a straight line (diameter) through the earth.
Over the surface, the longest distance possible to be away from home.
Anyway, Im happy with that little mission
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Learn to fly and rent a plane next time. Probably cheaper considering fuel prices.
I think that for me, that would be in Taiwan.
Any opinions on Portugal? Staying in topic, did you drink vinho verde and/or vinho do porto?
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Lisbon has a very long and interesting history
The city itself., Some nice spots.
Would I go back? probably not.
However I also went here
Itās pretty special do you recognize it
I speak a little bit of Spanish but Iām very rusty.
But enough to get by in spain.
I found Portuguese okay to understand when itās written or spoken.
However, trying to speak, it is tricky.
Because I know itās different, but I donāt know how to make it different.But again, it was easy enough to be understood.And to understand.
Luckily for me, most of them can speak spanish and english
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Well, Iām struggling to fall asleep again. Iām fed up with way too many thingsā¦
@Coma, mind if I ask you a few questions about Europe? Starting with how good is the respect of individuality and self expression? How difficult is it to order something from the US? How difficult is it to make friends? And most importantly, which countries are worth looking into if you value freedom and self expression?
Might as well take advantage of the free movement rightsā¦ Iām seriously thinking about leaving Latin America.
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Hey there!
Iāve been summoned 
Hmm, itās kinda hard to tell - I might be biased, because I was born here, so many things here feel familiar and ārightā for me, and Iām kinda privileged as well because Iām not directly affected by things like racism and suchā¦ so, itās all just my personal point of view, take it with the usual teaspoon of salt (at least!).
I live in Germany, and Iād say itās really good, but it depends a lot on where exactly you live. My hometown is very open-minded and liberal, lots of young students and such, and most people donāt care what you look like. I have quite a lot of visible piercings, and my subcultural affiliation is quite obvious as well, and most of the time, nobody cares. People might stare, at worst, or some teenagers might giggle and point at me.
There are places where people care even less - like Berlin, for example - ,but there are also places in Germany where you might get harassed if youāre not mainstream. Like in most parts of the world, bigger cities are more open-minded and small villages might be a bit more difficult.
Itās not difficult at all, you just have to pay quite a bit of taxes. If you order stuff from any other country in the EU, there are no taxes at all, but everything else can get expensive.
I didnāt visit enough countries to say much about that, but generally, Germany is quite fine (depending on where you are^^), Netherlands as well (especially the bigger cities), Scandinavia can be fine as well because many people there just donāt care about how you look - Iceland was amazing, people didnāt bother me at all and if I approached them, they were really friendly.
Sadly, in Germany and many other parts of Europe, fascists and right-wing politicians are on the rise again - there is definitely racism around, (some) politicians and (several of the) media are stirring up hatred against refugees, immigrants, BIPoC and everyone else who doesnāt fit the narrative of āblonde and blue eyedā (or at least āGerman for the last x generationsā). Our current government is leaning to the right as well, itās quite conservative and massively capitalist, and one of the bigger (!) parties thatās not in the government is far-right extremist. Fortunately, there is quite a resistance against this, especially in the bigger cities, but there are, sadly, some spots in Germany I would avoid (not only as an immigrant, but in general^^).
But, like I said, this is my personal biased point of view - I know that parties in the middle of the political spectrum in Germany are considered nearly communist in the US, for example, soā¦ 
Same with āfreedomā - we do have some laws here that restrict personal freedom. Guns are really hard to get (basically, you need a hunting license), several other weapons and even things like blades are partially restricted (depending on the length of the blade, if it can be hidden etc.). But we value freedom of speech a lot (there are very few things you could say that would get you into trouble - holocaust denial for example, and I think thatās a good thing to restrict), the press is free (rank 11 on the freedom of press ranking - the first 15 spots are european countries), body modifications are very easy to get (so not 100% body autonomy, but still a lot), and we have stuff like healthcare and a social state. I think this helps with freedom as well, because it allows for making mistakes, in a wayā¦
But itās definitely not āfreedomā like in the US. If thatās a good thing or a bad thing is up to you
Oh, and dunno if you care, but drugs are still quite prohibited here - alcohol, tobacco and weed are legal, the rest of themā¦ not so much. Like, not at all.
In the Netherlands, magic truffles are legal as well, and as far as I know, Portugal has de-criminalized all drugs - theyāre not legal, so there is still a black market and uncertainty about the ingredients, but you canāt go to jail for taking them.
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I will.jump onto this as a frequent Germany visitor. Berlin, to me, was a pretty much anything goes. Be respectful and everyone else will leave you to do you. The city is huge.
The Netherlands is just relaxed. That could come from simply walking through malls where, last time I was there, the amount of special smoke was noticeable. People though are sort of Germanic but much more relaxed.
I found Belgium to be the most relaxed and easy going place. Brussels in particular. To the point we discussed moving there and trying to get a job with the UN, but our circumstances didnāt suit at the time. Thatās now changing and is something I may well reconsider in the next year or three.
It really depends on what you want. I donāt think you will get the SA crap you are experiencing there. In particular most places have quiet time from 2200 to 0600 or better.
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Also I should qualify. I did not like Berlin. It was too, I donāt know, but almost like they didnāt want to be German but rather some sort of universal European citizen. Which is fine but just didnāt really make me comfortable. It is safe though and a great place.
I think this is quite fittingā¦ Berlin is such a big and international town, that people just donāt care at all about nationalities (at least in the main central parts of the city). I went there last year, and I was a bit surprised that in a lot of shops and cafes and such, I had to speak english. Like, itās not a problem at all, but itās still very unusual in Germany.
Itās actually nice to read that - there are some politicians in Germany who claim that there are āno-go-areasā all over Berlin, and thatās so hilarious in comparison to other parts of the world. Sure, you can have a bad experience in every city, but generally, Berlin felt safe to me as well.
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I honestly think we can say this about any city in the world. Basically, common sense applies. Donāt flash money around, donāt be disrespectful and donāt be a drunken idiot in public. All three attract opportunist individuals. I donāt think it reflects on cities but rather us as humanity. (Yes I am drinking and Pilgrim I think this is safe to leave here but, well you know, my thread..)!
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Here are some other things that you can add to the list on top of the noisy neighbors:
- Ordered a high end laptop from Amazon and it took me 20 days and $600 USD in legal fees to get it through customs. Amazon charges custom fees, duties, and taxes upfront so everything was paid for but they still demanded a bunch of paperwork and I had to hire a lawyer.
- Just ordered an SSD and a deodorant that doesnāt stain clothing. They are asking for paperwork because cosmetics need as additional certification. Iām in the process of telling them to either return it or shove it where the sun donāt shine. Sure, the SSD is expensive but itās still cheaper than the attorney fees to get the paperwork in order so having it destroyed (Or sold off by a corrupt government worker) is not off the table.
- The collectivism and enmeshment that comes with it. You are expected to hand over a significant amount of control over your life to friends and family. And you are also expected to get involved and make personal decisions for them. If you get married, your mother in law might end up dictating what you can have for lunch, where to go on vacation, or tell you that you canāt have dinner most days of the week with your partner because they need to keep their family together. A ridiculous amount of enmeshment is expected and I find this suffocatingā¦
- The enmeshment also leads to people trying to force unsolicited help and advice into most interactions. āFriendsā and family might insist on rearranging the furniture in your house, get you to eat something you donāt like, or shove their hands into places where they shouldnāt if youāre trying to change a tire or replace a breaker. And youāre expected to do the sameā¦
- What better way to guarantee loyalty and enmeshment than to get others entangled in dubious things? Government workers are highly loyal to each other because they are highly corrupt, and they promote corruption as a way to promote loyalty. This makes certain things a lot harderā¦ Especially if you want to get things done while keeping your freedom and conscience intact.
For a variety of reasons, I ended up being closer to the west culturally. Even when most of my family is well adapted to Latin America.
Provided that my ancestry is as European as it gets, I doubt that Iāll have any problems. And I mentioned Europe because I am a citizen of an EU member country so things would be easier than say, moving to the US or New Zealand. Although tax planning is the thing that worries me the most.
Also, the forum AI visited my country recently, so itās likely blessed by our computer overlords.
Fascism is never goodā¦
Thatās a welcome change over Latin America. Iām not conservative, but I am a capitalist and appreciate a free market with clear rules over weird corrupt favors mixed with superficial āfor the common goodā narratives.
Most countries in Latin America also restrict gun ownership. Although there are probably not as many laws, social pressure is a very big thing and you might be expected to have your personal decisions vetted by your friends and family. Hence why most of my friends are from the first world. I seriously couldnāt care less about sportsball or loud parties for example. I donāt fit in the stupid local box.
Meanwhile, people here have made rude comments about some spot on the back of my shirt that wasnāt as well ironed as the rest and I would definitely get judged by my neighbors if I wore a t-shirtā¦ Iāve also been mocked for liking octopus. Iām not forcing anyone to eat it and itās delicious, let me eat my tentacles in peace FFS!
I donāt do drugs and donāt plan to startā¦
Yeapā¦ Probably worse where I currently live.
Yeapā¦
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Mate, seriously you need to move.
I hate to say it but I have had many good mates seriously hurt themselves because of external factors like this and because they have not made changes in time.
You are clearly very unhappy and have recognised it. You have identified the causal factors. It is always hard to go but you seriously need to start thinking about starting somewhere new and where you will be happy.
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Reach out of you need to have a chat. I think I can safely say, everyone on this site appreciates you and cares about you and will help you to the best of their ability.
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Yep, I did.
I agree with the others
Its time to move back.
Culturally you will fit right back in and be happy
Although
If you want a complete change, somewhere that is super respectful, super safe, great food and somewhere very different from where you currently are.
Japan
Taiwan
Singapore (where I currently happen to be)
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Yes but arenāt those societies also extremely rigorous with their social norms? I could see how that would feel constraining in its own way, not unlike the challenges currently faced?
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I agree. Plus they are all very overcrowded and if you are feeling closed on by everything around youā¦..
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True, Japan mostly,
āThe nail that sticks out gets hammered downā.
but they also have many subcultures, so you may not fit in, but you dont fit in together.
Taiwan is pretty open to differences
And Singapore is such a cultral melting pot, nobody caresā¦
This is true of all of them, but as you would expect, outside of the major cities, its not quite so badā¦still not great
Portugal rates highly on the
Global Peace Index (GPI),
Taiwan (40) and Japan (12) arenāt featured in the top 10, but i think that is more to do with their geopolitical situations.
They are the 2 safest countries I have ever been to.
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