ok⌠yeah probably difficult to do simply because of the fact the displays themselves are not well suited to flexing⌠though with the flex displays now in Samsung phones, perhaps there is work being done on flexible e-ink displays?
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It seems as though you havenât been examining the thread very closely.
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Sadly true. I will talk less until I read more better 
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how about one of these. not sure on how to coat with something clear enough, but the size on this is 100% doable. still want to see it through a better skin analog first.
edit: this one is even better:
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flexible would definitely be better
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true. I donât have too much experience with flexible encapsulation though.
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Do you have much experience with rigid encapsulation?
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Nah. Your point still stands regardless.
Just because the e-ink display is âFlexâ, doesnât mean itâs flexible enough to sit under the skin.
Just looking at that video I could guess it wouldnât be fit for purpose. But that was only âmy guessâ until we had @hugovantriet 's stress test which proved that point.
Itâs like with fabric. Some are flexible only on Weft. some only on Warp.
Some are very flexible on both, but if you pull it on the diagonal they fold weirdly⌠even rip.
Given the placement area for this, We want something â720 degreesâ flexible (weft, warp, torqueâŚ)
Not only better. I would argue âessentialâ.
If itâs not flexible, the edges will try to rip out through the skin with your regular motions.
It would need to be implanted into a:
- very ânon-movingâ area of the bodyâŚ
- follow the natural curve of the regionâŚ
- be small enough it wouldnât deform the skin (because deformed skin adds stress points where the rigid implant can break through)
And I fail to locate any bodily region that has a rectangular portion of flat bone/skin for this to sit on a long term basis.
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I was thinking about this place in combination with a smaller flex display:
I think the amount of flex in this area of an arm is manageable, but please tell me if you have concerns about this.
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for a flex implant, absolutely!
My comment was about @Moonman0922 's suggestion about a rigid implant.
in that area, whenever you make an elbow torsion movement (common when youâre carrying groceries for example), it would push one of the 4 ends of the implant against the skin.
Over time I see that becoming a problem (with a rigid implant).
Now about flexâŚ
My concern there has to do with the axis of flexibility from the display.
Iâve remade your video but keeping my elbow static against a table:
You can see how much more the square bends on me, particularly the ânortheastâ corner.
This isnât a movement we do consciously very much, but we do that quite a lot on a daily basis⌠be it adjusting a belt, picking up a bag at an angle or tucking a shirt behind your back.
There the flexibility axis put to test is a combination of âtorsionâ and âskewerâ. And most flex displays only focus on the usual 2D axis, which are used to allow it to be applied to a curved surface.
This does grant the display some level of âtorsionâ flexibility, but itâs usually limited and not built to withstand as much stress as an implant would need⌠but even then doesnât even begin addressing the âskeweringâ capabilities
That said, this is mostly a concern, not a blocker.
Maybe there is a display out there able to take this level of punishment⌠itâs just hard to know since not even the manufacturers tend to care about advertising it.
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This is indeed an issue, no datasheet anywhere mentions the amount of flex movements or the maximum rotation angles.
Another downside of all the displays I have found so far is that the connector is facing the same way as the display.
It would be more ideal if the connector was placed on the back such that other parts can be easily connected to the display without folding the ribbon cable.
Maybe (very unlikely) if we can get enough demand it might be possible to let those display manufacturers come up with a custom solution with custom requirements, but that would very likely be an expensive operation.
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Maybe thatâs not needed.
There are many steps in building a flexible display. And for each step there are multiple possible approaches.
The combination of said approaches might make the display able to perform skewering and torsion well and in a robust manner, as a âside effectâ. And that would be good enough for us!
The problem then is one of marketing more than technology:
-
âhow can this display bendâ is usually irrelevant to the engineers building the microcontrolers/drivers, therefore wouldnât show up on a datasheet.
-
Maybe on the design specifications, IF the company bothers with those⌠but even then, the vast majority of consumers for said displays would apply them to curved surfaces, so no one bothers with specifying (or even testing) how much can they be skewered.
So the display we want probably already exists. just⌠which one is it?
Maybe if you find someone building flex displays for clothing, it could give us a hintâŚ
Probably if thereâs something built for use with the likes of the lilypad
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super good points.
there isnât a whole lot of flat, unmoving real estate on the body and this would be fairly large.
I have seen other implants of a similar size that did do just fine in a similar spot on the dorsal forearm though. the embedivet was about the same size and quite a bit thicker and lasted until it was planned to be pulled. I would be concerned with the durability of the display itself, Iâm not sure on how it would react to any impact. could potentially use a sheet of perspex above the display before coating.
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âplanned to be pulledâ is the key.
The PegLeg was a full raspberry Pi embedded in the thigh.
Those things work because they are meant to be pulled quite soon.
I believe I could get it in⌠just concerned that the longer it stays there, the higher the risk of internal injury or rejection.
That would potentially make it more resilient, and some people would be happy with that.
I personally think that the only damage mitigation I would be happy to see in one of my implants is âshock absorptionâ.
Making something hard become âharderâ just means that if that takes a blow⌠all that kinetic energy will translate in at least one edge pushing hard against your internal squishy bits. or bone.
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NGL, I donât see myself getting an implant with an expiration date. But many people have enjoyed payment conversions so I know that something that has to be pulled later on can bring happiness to many people.
Also, I guess itâs weird that I donât have any tattoos when Iâd prefer to be 100% metal. :robot_gundam:
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Give it another year
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In regards to larger implants, I was surprised at the amount of sustained and shock forces happen in the area where my flexMT is. Iâm also surprised how well the implant has put up with it!
Iâm definitely going to 3D print a small mock up to super glue to the proposed install site before I get a new flex implant. I didnât realize how much of my body I use to stabilize myself or objects, or use to manipulate objects, sometimes forcefully, to get work done. That may be more of a manual labor type job concern though for people considering a flex implant. It could be useful for others though who encounter moving, or other things.
My flexMT is on the other side of my forearm but I use that spot a LOT more than I thought I did u til I got it installed!
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I maybe have found some candidates that are interesting to look at, I looked for small size and flexiblity:
- square 1.54 inch (my favourite so far)
- 1.02 inch (maybe a bit too small to be of any significance)
- This supplier has several very interesting displays, problem is that the website seems to be behind the great Chinese firewall, so I could not access any of the datasheets yet since the connection would time-out before giving me anything useful.
Edit: I managed to get access to some of the datasheets and I saw this display:
colour flex e-paper.pdf (529.1 KB)
They already made a library for it and itâs on GitHub.
I would like to hear your opinion on colour flex displays and if it would be even visible under the skin.
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The way I see it, thereâs a difference.
One thing is to put in an implant which, due to external factors (aka Visa being douchebags), will need to be replaced after a few years.
Another is to put an experimental implant in you for a preset time, because then it would have suited itâs purpose.
I once put a dermal hook on the back of my wrist.
Because reasons. 
I had never noticed how many times we hit our wrists into EVERYTHING!!! 
Or how much you rub your wrist against belts, pockets, bags⌠etc!!
Itâs just so much that the brain actually classes most wrist sensations as âsensorial clutterââŚ
Well said!
You do work fast!! Congrats! XD
On option 1. the âvideoâ links all point me to pdf files⌠
For all of those, my main concern is still the same: will it bend as much as we need?
And without videos itâs hard for me to guessâŚ
Besides that, the secondary biggest concern is âwill it be technically fit for purpose?â but there I believe you are better equipped to answer than I am. So I would trust your judgement from that angle.
That depends⌠Assuming no backlight, ultimately it comes down to the contrast attained and the colour matrix used.
Whatever colour used, red and yellow tones might be more affected than Cyan and Green ones.
Spectra might be tricky, since the main colours used are Red or Yellow.
ACeP is, in theory, promissing. Magenta instead of Red might make it a bit brighter and able to be better seen than Red. And the fact these use all of yellow, Magenta and Cyan, which should be seen better through skin, might allow us to tweak images and add a splash of useful colour there!
Still, there will be some tinting happening, regardless of the technology⌠but with a crisp and reflective enough screen we might be able to compensate that.
But thatâs all in ball park figures and educated guesses, so far.
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Thanks a lot, strangely I work the fastest on my engineering projects if I have to do other stuff I like less.
Got a video for you, it does show no flexing unfortunately.
It seems like these manufacturers of flex displays do not want you to flex their displaysâŚ
Thatâs definitely a great idea to test how much you move a specific part of your body during the day.
Do you print with flexible material?
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