Endochron Implant

[Eriequiet]

For the amount of power you need, would subdermal photo voltiacs work? I remember Amal did something supposedly

Make it into the right form factor and it should* be needle implantable

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@Eriequiet

I remember Amal did something supposedly

Solar-powered Amal

Part of a crazy couple days out in the desert shooting a sizzle reel for a production company about biohackers… incidentally Grindfest 1.0 was borne from this event. I have more footage somewhere, but this is what’s easily accessible. [IMG_20150223_125534100] [IMG_20150304_143515999_HDR] [IMG_20150304_180220356] [2016-01-16_01-11-12] Very thin silicone coating on there… meant for very temporary exposure during the test, then removed. The incision wasn’t even sealed up during testing.

[Eriequiet]

@anon3825968 ahead of the game lol

@anon3825968

Interersting. 50uW may not seem much, but if it charges something constantly, it can add up to usable power.

[Satur9]

Does anyone want to have a crack at sorting through these for the most suitable one?

https://www.analog.com/en/parametricsearch/11503#/p5564=|Solar

Less than 1mm z-height is necessary and less than 0.7mm would be ideal. We really only need one input if we decide to use a panel, but multiple would inputs would be useful if we elected to use multiple photodiodes as the source.

[Satur9]

Energy Harvesting Wristwatch Uses A Versatile Photodiode

[ThePolishedTurd]

automatic mechanical watches offer unlimited viewing time, but typically runs out of stored energy if unworn for a day or two

Totally unrealistic but I can’t help but imagine some kind of steampunk electro-mechanical watch implant where the mechanical side is the energy harvesting mechanism that winds up a spring and when you trigger the time it releases a little bit of energy for lighting up the LEDs and charging a capacitor for the RTC to run on. Or something along those lines. Unfortunately I have had a cheap automatic watch in the past and the energy harvesting mechanism was not good enough to keep it running through a week of wearing it and being active. That was a cheap watch of course.

Downsides of the idea being size, weight, and wear from it being a mechanical device that cannot be serviced easily. Whole lot of bad with the idea but still fun to think about.

[Satur9]

We can get so much energy from just tapping your phone to the implant for 3 seconds that in all honestly an energy harvesting solution like photodiodes is just a trickle charge supplement to get you through the day. Personally not a fan of mechanical or piezoelectric solutions though because as you stated mechanical parts wear.

If we had literally any supplemental energy though we could still go through with the plan of having the NTAG 5 handle the charging and communication with the RTC using its transparent I2C master channel to configure the RTC from a phone using raw ISO 15693 commands in case of drift or power loss.

[KBio]

@Satur9

We can get so much energy from just tapping your phone to the implant for 3 seconds that in all honestly an energy harvesting solution like photodiodes is just a trickle charge supplement to get you through the day

How long would it last? If I had something like this I wouldn’t mind tapping my phone to it 1 or 2 times a day to get it to stay on. You could also use readers that you have around work or at a store right? I can already imaging using a payment terminal to “charge up” my watch implant. That’s how it would work right? I don’t see it as too inconvenient. Excuse my ignorance lol I haven’t been paying to much attention to this thread.

[Satur9]

I’ll have to do some math and it’s late. I’ll get back to you tomorrow

[non-bin]

eInk! That could be possible to have always up to date but visibility would be a bit shit without a bright light. Thoughts? Sort of like a dynamic tattoo

[Eriequiet]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but while e ink screens are supposedly fixed in place and require little to no power to maintain a display… I was under the impression they require MORE power to flip the pixels…

meaning a constantly updating e ink display might suck down more power than an led

But I might have it twisted

[Hage_Putte]

That depends on the version, i believe. I did not really understand everything on this E Ink - Wikipedia article, but from what i read on other sites, wich i dont exactly remember, the different versions use different amounts of power.

[Satur9]

Check out this thread:

Implantable LEDs. How far from consumer availability?

I know we have implants that feature a small number of LEDs already. But groups like [Roger’s research group](https://Implantable LEDs. How far from consumer availability?) have been (Seemingly) successful in creating an array of LEDs that would be suitable for sub-dermal implantation. I’m thinking purely for cosmetic purposes - Think LED tattoo -. How close to a consumer market is this type of mesh array? Or for amal to implement something similar? And when it comes to other tech, Roger’s has …

[non-bin]

Has anyone done the maths on power production and usage?
I will if I can get an idea of the parts you’re thinking of

Just want to write down my thoughts so I don’t forget ignore all this:

Could we do 14 segment displays for more possibilities? Shouldn’t use more power except when using the extra segments, but might need a bigger chip to run it. On the same train, 2 digits?
Could it be user programmable? ie open source and flashable, maybe with fedismo?? Don’t know what the platform supports.

[non-bin]

MY SISTER’S IDEA
would it be possible to develop the implants on the assumption that the spec sheets of the beatvolteics are right, and then integrate them without technically using them during development? What are we allowed to do without a licence? Would each owner need a lisence? How far can we stretch it?

Have you approached a university or other research place about using their lisence? I’d be happy to see if I can find some people in my course who could make this a reality

[non-bin]

Ok I think I’m actually going to do this as a project for a bit, the licence for Victoria, AU look like they’re only AUD$1300 (USD$900).
@Satur9 have you had any actual communication with either betavoltaic producer? Would they really be only $16 each?

[Satur9]

@non-bin

have you had any actual communication with either betavoltaic producer? Would they really be only $16 each?

Widetronix and Citylabs were the only ones I found that offer surface mount options. That’s just the roughest of estimates from Chris though. Larger order quantifies will obviously create lower per-unit costs.

If you can get things lined up, I’ll contribute funds, and I know leumas95 will as well

[non-bin]

Done some maths, and this is looking a little grim (EDIT maybe not, at least one of sites hasn’t been updated since 2011). I just picked this display because it’s the thinest I could fine at 2mm (not great but can be reverse-mounted and maybe hacked a bit? I’ll buy a few to test)
The second one is just the lowest current rated one

Endochrom initial maths

Unrelated: where did the name Endochron come from?

EDIT: I had some fun and made a logo, this is number 3

All options

Reference

1.Reduced spacing

2. Removed background

3. Reduced space around E, c, and r (no longer monospace)

4. Bottom aligned n, h, and r

[Satur9]

@non-bin

where did the name Endochron come from?

I made it up

[Satur9]

@non-bin

Ok I think I’m actually going to do this as a project for a bit, the licence for Victoria, AU look like they’re only AUD$1300 (USD$900).

Made any progress with this? I could reach out to Widetronix directly and see if they’ll honor an AU radioisotope license if you can give me more information. Chris Thomas is the CEO and he is the one I was talking to.