M1flex installation with Apex needle

I have a couple questions regarding the flexibility (or rather, the durability) of the FlexM1 and similar format implants: if you implant it in a slightly fleshy spot - as opposed to along a bone - it’ll bend when you press down on it. That means the copper wire in the coil will bend. My questions are these:

  • If the fleshy bit is fleshy enough, and you press hard enough, does the copper wire deform permanently? Copper isn’t very springy, so I expect it to deform plastically each time the device is subjected to bending.

  • Have you done a metal fatigue test? I.e. how many times can you bend it until the wire breaks, and how does the amount of bending reduce the number of cycles?

  • Have you noticed delamination or shearing between the top or bottom of the flexible silicone and the embedded inflexible copper in the middle, as the device is flexed repeatedly?


A in depth post about testing like the one for the x form factor implants would be very nice tbh. I am sure it is on your long list @amal.


This doesn’t answer your questions about the implants outside the body, but it could be interesting.

Just a heads up it’s not silicon or silicone.


I have some failures of some flex where the chip works but the coating isn’t implant quality so I can do some in vitro testing.


Interesting video, thanks. But you’re right: it doesn’t answer my questions. It’s strictly anecdotal and suppositions. If anything, it reinforces my belief that such an implant should be backed up by a bone underneath. If I implanted a flex in the forearm where the person in the video implanted his, I’d damage it in 2 minutes flat when I work in tight spots on my vehicles - tight enough as in, I come out of the workshop with bloody hands and arms.

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99.9% sure that the person is @Satur9, pretty sure they made the video to share in this thread.


With that in consideration, where do you get injured the least where you would put one of these?

Could put some under some chicken or pork skin and try using the back of a bolt on it. Could simulate fixing a car and having hands pushed up against something.

Oh yes, duh me. I didn’t realize… I thought, how convenient, a video that addresses my concerns :slight_smile:


A bit messy, and in my opinion, not extreme enough… I did this instead;


I do still wonder about the edge if a bolt pushing into the middle of the copper area. Other than that, it looks great to me. I don’t know how I would bend it like that to begin with.

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If it’s bending that much under your skin you probably have other problems to worry about anyway I suppose haha


I agree.

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*it might seem that I’m peeved but I’m just playin around :wink:

** this is the second time I had to shoot that because the first hammering and screwdrivering didn’t get recorded.


No worries! This should keep those people satisfied… :rofl:


I’ve been reading and it seems the conclusion is that there’s nothing the flexNT can do that the M1 couldn’t right? Plus it has cloning options.

It doesn’t have the blinky of the xSIID (yes I’m easily distracted by shiny objects) but they have essentially the same storage capacity while NXP struggles with accessing the whole 2kb. It seems that functionally the M1 would be the current HF king. Did I miss something?

Do we expect the Apex could do the same UID cloning? I haven’t seen it mentioned.


Have not got one I can play with, need to look for some test chips but just because NXP struggles should not mean you could not store something on the other part of it using custom commands. Would not help for NDEF records. I plan on trying to store some raw data on there for PC login, in the part that is not accessible to NXP.

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Yeah , it must have slipped through your gaps, Long story short, Cant change UID but can emulate other card types…
sorry I’m just on the exercise bike, I’ll find you the links when I’m not moving around so much (yet not going anywhere)


DW @Pilgrimsmaster I got ya back!



Haha, samsies, thanks @leumas95 … . you were just faster :+1:

easier than I thought, even in the same thread.

** Edit, Now I the same thread 3 times**