NExT v2 -- FINALLY!

[amal]

[Eriequiet]

Shot in the dark
(Rim shot)
Any chance the v2 is brighter than an xSIID?
I expect it’s likely the same… but one can hope

I expect hf performance will be a bit less than a v1 because of the power harvesting… in line with the xSIID also?

[Az_F]

Is this the probe that abducted people talk about?

Also congrats, this is the ultimate swiss knife of implants

[filefly]

Just because I can’t seem to find a ton of data (admittedly, I didn’t look very hard): what are the functional differences between the NTAG216 and the NTAGI2C? I see that they both have the same amount of memory.

[Crimson]

Why is the 5577 preprogrammed to an EM chip, and is it reprogramable (clone HID via proxmark for example, or is it stuck as an EM chip).

Also, is the blink tied solely to the ntag, or will a lf read blink as well?

[tac0s]

@Crimson

Why is the 5577 preprogrammed to an EM chip

Because it is very commonly used and works with some of our products (xAC and LF KBR1) without additional configuration.

@Crimson

is it reprogramable

Yeah. You need either a Proxmark or Flipper Zero.

@Crimson

is the blink tied solely to the ntag, or will a lf read blink as well?

The t5577 doesn’t have the power harvesting feature of the NTAGI2C so it’s HF only blink.

[tac0s]

@amal will correct me if i am wrong but not really. The I2C in the name is a reference to I2C devices that the chip can work with however since it is an implant there is no physical access to the pads that can do this.

Different? Sure. Different in ways that matter? No.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@filefly

I see that they both have the same amount of memory.

Except, if its the chip is the NTAG I²C Plus 2K (NT3H2211)
It will have double the storage of the NExT

Then this info will still be valid

So what happened with the 2k memory on the xSIID?

TL;DR - The first batch of xSIID made December 2019 were formatted to try to use all 2k of memory across two 1k memory sectors for NFC applications, but the NFC stacks built into Android and iOS phones don’t know how to properly read multiple memory sectors in NFC Type 2 chips. Future batches are formatted to only use the first memory sector which is 1k for NFC applications. The remaining 1k is still readable and writable by phones, but only with a custom smartphone app that can directly address…

If not, then Ill go and sit back in the corner…

[tac0s]

@Pilgrimsmaster

Except, if its the chip is the NTAG I²C Plus 2K (NT3H2211)

Nope! That was a typo–these are 1k since nothing works with 2k.

[tac0s]

Turns out there was a miscommunication–there will be no red after all. Too little current required to drive the red compared to everything else.

[amal]

@Crimson

Why is the 5577 preprogrammed to an EM chip

The other reason is that if we leave it factory default (no configuration), nearly 100% of customers will try to use it with something like our LF KBR1 or another device that will typically use EM chips, and it won’t work… then we get support tickets Also as @tac0s said, shipping in EM mode means most users can use it without needing additional hardware to program it, which they might not have. Finally, shipping them in EM mode allows us to treat initial programming as an operational test. If it works, it works. If not, reject bin.

[Not]

I’m a tad confused; If the xSIID and NExT2 share the same (hf) chip, why can the xSIID run the red and not the NExT2? I’m assuming something to do with the LF antenna stealing little bits of power, or interfering?

[amal]

The xSIID was a collab with DSruptive. They made the “SIID module” which is the NTAG I2C + resistor + LED on a carrier module. We bought that as an OEM part and made it into the xSIID product. They worked on those modules for well over a year to get the balance of resistor and LED current per lumosity just right. We tried our hand at it as well but decided to just forgo red for the brighter and more exciting colors. We could circle back and try to sort out red, but other things are taking priority at the moment.

[Aoxhwjfoavdlhsvfpzha]

Follow up question:

@Aoxhwjfoavdlhsvfpzha

Is the NExTv1 xSIID sticking around, or is this meant to replace it?

[amal]

The NExT v2 is considered a replacement for the xSIID.

[mhcasc]

I dare say that 99.99% of people would never look at it, let alone miss it, but the I2C chip doesn’t appear to have the NFC read counter that’s available in the 216.

It’s trivially bypassed and it’s difficult to work with if you have multiple readers, but using the counter can provide a (ridiculously weak) form of replay protection.

[amal]

Yes this is a good catch… we use the NT3H2111 which does have a counter but it’s only accessible via I2C session registers, not over NFC… so yes good catch. There are other differences related to the config page E3 as well;

• no NFC accessible read counter (accessible via I2C session registers only)
• no data mirror (used by the 216 to insert the counter value into normal memory page read)
• other differences based on memory size of I2C chip

NTAG I2C

NT3H2111_2211.pdf (762.7 KB)

NTAG 216

NTAG213_215_216.pdf (1.4 MB)

[filefly]

Thank you, this explains everything I had questions about

[Kaylachu]

So…are you going to continue carrying the xSIID, or is it being discontinued in favor of the NeXT2? Just wondering cause I was planning on getting a red one, but won’t be in a position to order one for a while (3~6 mo). If they’re being discontinued I’ll do some shuffling and snag one before they go away.

[tac0s]

We’ve still got quite a few red xSIIDs. But the NExT v2 is replacing the xSIID.