One more "Which implant should I get and other dumb questions"

[Satur9]

@Jirvin

I would like to see what @Satur9’s thoughts are on this personally.

@enginerd

These things are powered through magnetic coupling and the strength of those fields depends on the current, not the voltage. Also, I wouldn’t worry too much about frequencies that are different from 125kHz or 13.56mHz. From what I understand, there’s some form of capacitor on the chips that forms a tank circuit with the coil and is tuned at the specific frequency of that particular chip, and this should attenuate other frequencies.

This. enginerd is right. The implant circuits:

1. have very poor coupling with everything in the environment because of the shapes and sizes of the coils
2. only interact with the magnetic component of the “near-field” (not electrical fields)
3. are very precisely tuned

A difference of 100kHz from the target frequency can reduce the amount of power the LC tank circuit in the implants recieve from the field by half or more. Maybe if you placed a T5577 chip right up against a wire carrying more than 30A at 100-150kHz you might be able to fry it. You can certainly fry the LF xLEDs with less. You would have to work very hard at frying a HF implant though. Even the HF xLED. Even an NFCKill has to be right next to it.

[XEMON]

@Satur9

Maybe if you placed a T5577 chip right up against a wire carrying more than 30A at 100-150kHz you might be able to fry it.

Thats great news, this mean we are pretty much safe from any interferences damaging the implants.

@Satur9

Even an NFCKill has to be right next to it.

Dam … I didnt even knew those things existed …

On the injection/location side of things.
Is it OK to have 2 implant (xEM & xM1) on the same P0 location?
(wish there were a NExT version with the xM1 instead of the xNT …)
Can you inject the 2 implant back to back in the same injection or you have to place it next to it/at a later date?

[enginerd]

@XEMON

Is it OK to have 2 implant (xEM & xM1) on the same P0 location?

@XEMON

Can you inject the 2 implant back to back in the same injection or you have to place it next to it/at a later date?

Yes, and yes. You can get them both in the same location and at the same time.

[XEMON]

@enginerd

You can get them both in the same location and at the same time.

How do you maintain the 5mm spacing?

[pac]

Have your installer place them 5mm apart

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@XEMON

How do you maintain the 5mm spacing?

Read from here down

Are there any disadvantages to the xDF2 over xNT?

I assume that you can get two chips installed in the same location at the same time, right? Or do you need to wait for one chip to heal before you install another one next to it? I intend to get them both in the L0 position. From my understanding, as long as the chips are spaced 5mm+ appart, there should be no problems.

and search the forum for “Corral”

@XEMON

(wish there were a NExT version with the xM1 instead of the xNT …)

Me too, and a few others

SURVEY Multi-purpose xSeries implant!

IF you could choose ANOTHER multifunctional 2 in 1 xSeries implant similar to the NExT, What would it be? Please take a couple of seconds to read and vote BUT only if you would actually consider purchasing. The hope being, if there is enough interest, Dangerous Things may consider doing a production run. (OBVIOUSLY, only if it was technically possible) poll

Maybe one day

@amal

I voted for the xM1 + T5577 because it would mean the entire chip would be re-programmable… a true “hacker’s chip”… but there are complexity issues here as mentioned above that would make this particular arrangement slightly more difficult to create… though I think I will explore it.

[XEMON]

Thanks for the link, really interesting read (still going through it).

[XEMON]

I think I’m gonna go with the NExT in L0 and the xM1 in R0 for now, it leaves me the option of adding an xEM in R0 if I have the need down the road.

Now the hardest part: get my wife on board

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@XEMON

Now the hardest part: get my wife on board

[XEMON]

Ok, after over 15h laying on the airgap capacitor i have no changes in the cloned cards data (T5577 and MK1) but the MK1 read went from 8 seconds to over 200 … not sure what that is about …
Next test will be on the end of the coil.

One more thought on implant selection:
Is there any advantages to the xEM over the NExT for the LF chip/antenna?
Also, is there anything the Ntag216 does that a DesfireEV2 cannot do?

If the answer are Yes and No respectively, im thinking it might be smarter to get xEM and xM1 on one side, freeing the other side for xDF2 (or an apex when it comes out)

Also thinking about the inner wrist for a small flex down the line … would a metal watch band bother anything there (having the implant bellow the band)?

Also, just confirming the NExT and xM1 cannot be side by side in the same P0 right?

Just weighing all my options/possibility before doing the big jump,
Thanks

[Zwack]

The usual recommendation is that there should be 5mm between implants.

Ideally you don’t have two HF or LF that close together to make it easier to select which one you really want to read.

[amal]

@APartOfMe

@XEMON

Didn’t realized the KBR1 was Ntag216 … ill have to pick one up

It’s not just Ntag216. It will work with any HF (High Frequency) tag as far as I know.

this is where annoying standards come in the KBR1 will read any ISO14443A transponder UID, but not any HF (13.56MHz) tag… for example, the Spark 1 or xSLX are 13.56MHz HF but ISO15693 standard, which the KBR1 will not read.

[XEMON]

Ok, thanks for the details.

So the xDF2 is ISO14443A with “8kB multi-application memory space”, so can i emulate/clone any ISO14443A card to it?
ie: can i use the xDF2 instead of the xNT and the xSIID?

Also, does the xEM has a better read range than the NExT?

[amal]

@XEMON

So the xDF2 is ISO14443A with “8kB multi-application memory space”, so can i emulate/clone any ISO14443A card to it?

sorry no… the memory is “user memory”… but the UID (serial number) of the chip is read-only and not changeable.

[amal]

@XEMON

Also, does the xEM has a better read range than the NExT?

no they are approximately the same performance.

[amal]

@XEMON

So the xDF2 is ISO14443A with “8kB multi-application memory space”, so can i emulate/clone any ISO14443A card to it?
ie: can i use the xDF2 instead of the xNT and the xSIID?

just to be clear … none of those products are able to have their UIDs changed… they are all read-only.

The only 13.56MHz ISO14443A chips that can change IDs are;

• xM1
• flexM1
• flexMN

[XEMON]

@amal

just to be clear … none of those products are able to have their UIDs changed… they are all read-only.

The only 13.56MHz ISO14443A chips that can change IDs are;

• xM1
• flexM1
• flexMN

Thank you so much for this, this makes so much more sense!
So except those 3 (“Magic” 1K), all other HF chip will have to be enrolled in the access system?

[Zwack]

@XEMON

So except those 3 (“Magic” 1K), all other HF chip will have to be enrolled in the access system?

Yes. That is exactly what that means.

[XEMON]

awesome, thanks

Now im wondering wither i should go for NExT on one side and xM1 on the other
Or xEM and xM1 on one side and xDF2 (or wait for the apex) on the other …

[Zwack]

Unless you have a reason for a desfire chip I would wait for Apex. It is Flex only at the moment.