VivoKey Apex update

If I’m getting a large implant, it better have a decent range. I might end up getting an Apex Mega when it’s available.

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Can we get a UHF version, those things have excellent range? :laughing: how about a chest sized antenna?

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So you’re planning to go from no chips at all to the largest possible implant, right?

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Well, you know what they say? Go big or go home…

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This discussion makes me think about Cyberpunk ideas. Phones have a small antenna, and get wifi, cell service and GPS signals. When we get around to powered implants (equivalent of a smartphone in your arm), I wonder where the antenna would go? You would need a bigger antenna because of the soft tissue, and a powered implant would have way less energy available for upload if it were using energy harvesting. Would the antenna go on/around the chest?
I know there was something I heard once about a coil of wire around the neck acting to pick up electromagnetic signals for either a magnet implant or some kind of audio device. Was that a real thing or just a proposed idea?
~ Jamie

The tissue is not the issue (rhyme!), it’s the salty water floating around in the tissue that causes the problem. This is why submarines must drag a mile long cable behind them at the surface and transmit on VLF (very low frequency) with a huge watt load just to send tiny bits of data bit by bit.

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this was likely the magnetic coil used to vibrate magnet implants to generate sound.

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That sounds about right.

Yeah, I did know it’s actually the salt water but I was just really abbreviating the concept. :stuck_out_tongue:

Well, if nobody has any ideas for antennae for implants under the skin, in Cyberpunk2077 there are transdermal electronics like this


Salty water wouldn’t be a problem if the antenna passes through the skin, right? We’d just need a bio-compatible coating that lets the signal pass through but protects from corrosion…
~ Jamie

And infection

Pfffft you want infection prevention as well as corrosion protection? Can it at least be carcinogenic then? :unicorn_shock_surprise:

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I would imagine that the coatings on the implants might work well, but I’m not an expert.

Maybe you could add a sprinkle of uranium, radium, or asbestos to the mix?
~ Jamie

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I don’t want uranium…
that shits common place, let’s go with designer plutonium…

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They won’t…
I had microdermals once and I love the idea of transdermal implants, but they. get. infected.
I am pretty routined in piercing aftercare, so I know what to do, and I made my microdermals last for eight years before I had to take them out - my piercer said he was amazed that they lasted that long, for most of them don’t.
If you take the big-ass transdermals that are used for stuff like the iron mohawk -

mohawk

they tend to stay longer, but are still incredibly prone to infections and growing out. I’d love to have a USB-slot (not working, just for style^^) somewhere behind my ear or so, and my artist even had an idea on how to achieve that, but it would definitely lead to problems just because it’s an open (!) pocket inside the skin.

Lyrics for a Biohack rap!

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God that would be so cool, I’d be down
(Preferable usb c though, for a more ghost in the shell vibe)

Problem is I can see people being asshats and non consensually jamming things in it for giggles… possibly causing injury ( or their injury when they punched in the face)

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That’s always a no-go :wink:
Yeah, it would cause big problems if you’d actually plug something in there, especially the part of pulling it out again… I caught on one of my microdermals with a safety belt once, that was quite a nasty feeling :grimacing:

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Is it known why transdermals are prone to infections? Is it to do with not having a perfect seal around the opening?

Is it known why the transdermals/microdermals have a tendency to be rejected eventually? (You mentioned migration.) Is it something chemical? Is it something about the structure of the foreign object that the body rejects, like a splinter under the skin? Is it related to new cells being grown and slowly pushing it further out?
If it’s something chemical then maybe we need a different chemical (graphene comes to mind). If it’s structural then maybe different ways of anchoring into the body???

I have no idea about any of this, I defer to you. I’m just spitballing and trying to come up with possible ways for it to work. I’m not one to give up on an idea.
~ Jamie

I’m not a doctor, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but a quick glance starting at “Structure in Humans and other mammals” seems a good place to start.

Yes, this is exactly why infections are a problem. Getting the skin to grow into the implant and bond with it is rather hard.

From my understanding, those tend to grow out. So yes.

There are osseointegrated attachments for prosthetics that get anchored to the remaining bone and pass through the skin so those are not likely to grow out of the body. But the infection risk is still there.

@enginerd basically said it already - the infections are because there is an opening in the skin, and stuff (dead skin cells, sweat, dust, whatever) tends to collect in there. Same happens with piercings, but due to constant movement, it can’t really settle there. Plus, you can clean piercings easily - cleaning a microdermal is always some sort of movement it doesn’t really like :wink:
Growing out happens because the skin can’t really close “around” the object, so the body thinks it still has a chance to get that nasty foreign thing away. If there is a little inflammation or similar going on already, it happens even faster. And to be honest - transdermal implants are something you really easily catch on during daily life, and several people I know just tore their implants out by accident.