Is the T5577 side of NExT VERY weak?

Greetings everyone!

First off, apologies for a starting a new post, I know there was a related discussion in 2020, but I hesitated to revive an old thread, and I do have some additional questions :slight_smile:

After years of indecision, I finally pulled the trigger and got the NExT injectable. I had my NExT installed a few months ago, between thumb and index. No problems, minimal pain and swelling, with a week everything was healed. It is not visible, but by making a fist it can be felt.

The NFC side works. The keyboard wedge and smartphones read and write it without issue once I get everything aligned. It is a bit fiddly, I have to get it in just the right spot, unlike larger tags, but it works.

The issue is with the RFID side. It seems extremely weak. It took about 10 minutes to find a position that let the Proxmark3 Easy register even a modest voltage drop, but with some finagling and an extra hand to hold things at an angle I was finally able to clone a HID Proxcard II onto it and verify the read, so it technically works, but the issue seems to be that the signal is so faint that no reader I have access to registers its existence so it’s effectively unusable. I’ve tried it on 3 card readers at my office and none of them even acknowledge a chip is near, but admittedly they do appear to all be the same model. I have tried using the sensor tags to locate a sweet spot, but no joy with the tag so far. I have successfully cloned to other T5577 chips (rings, stickers, etc) and used them with this system so I’m confident it should work :slight_smile:

From what I’ve read I think the tag was installed properly. Since I can feel it through the skin I’m assuming it’s not too deep or anything like that, so I’m just trying to trying to properly manage my expectations. I understand that the compact nature limits its range, but this is so limited it’s unusable. Does it require a very strong card reader? I have no way to get the building to replace the readers, so I’d have to find one that works and use it at home for a diy project. If that’s the case, any suggestions on a known-working reader for hobby use? Ideally something easy to interface with a raspberry pi.

I am unlikely to undergo the cost and discomfort of removal, so I’d love to find a practical use for it. Being a cyborg is much cooler if you can actually do something with your enhancements :slight_smile: If I reset the T5577 back to EM, would the xEM Access Controller v2 be strong enough to read it? I also just ordered a Redbee reader on Ebay after seeing Amal’s video about it.

Finally, could I reasonably expect to have a reliable experience with the office card readers if I get the FlexEM or FlexMN? I feel like I may have played it too safe getting an injectable for easier installation at the cost of viable performance. I don’t know how much skin attenuates signal, and I’d love to end up with something functional :slight_smile:

Thanks all!

How long ago did you get your implant? Swelling can decrease the range significantly during the first few weeks.

Yes, in fact it can read a new xEM through the needle and I wouldn’t be surprised if it can do the same with a NExT.

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The xACv2 has one of the best readers I’ve used
I can get half inch of air gap easy

The proxmark… Is one of the weakest and most finicky… perhaps look into a flipper zero when they are commonly available… or consider doing a coil mod to the proxmark

I’m thinking about doing the coil mod myself in the next short while

It took me a while to find the sweet spot on work readers… I found it really helpful to sweep across in a slow wipe rather than pin point presentation

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I have about 12 readers at work. 2 don’t work with my next (cloning a HID card). 2 are very difficult to get a read off and require me to put my hand in particular positions (different on each). The other 8 are no problem at all. All readers are the same brand and model.

I popped the cover off the 2 difficult RFID readers to look where the antenna was and then used the glass LF reader to find the best spots.

One of the ones which did not work is outside on an entrance door, so I wonder if weather exposure has limited its performance.

I would suggest to keep trying and see if you can get the LF glass detector tonight up.

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Thanks for that reply! I think I’ll order one :slight_smile:

Thanks for the info on the xACv2!

I bought the Proxmark as a bundle with my chip thinking it was the best option, guess I should have done some more research :slight_smile: Is the coil mod you mentioned the ProxLF addon? If I’m understanding things I think that needs the Proxmark RDV4, and I have the Easy version sold here which doesn’t appear to be easily modded.

The Flipper Zero looks very nifty, I’ll keep an eye on that project :smiley:

Thanks for the insight! I wish I had that level of access to the readers, the building installed them behind secured glass panels, I can’t even see what kind of readers they are. I’m hesitant to spend too much time standing in front of them, I don’t need security coming to find out what my problem is LOL But I’ll continue to give it a try when I go in. However I may go ahead and get one of the Flex options just to make it easier when I’m no longer mostly working remote.

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The indala stuff is a indication of a borderline bad read, there’s a video where Amal mentions it’s the first thing to start acting up

I’ll see if I can find it

I made a mistake, so I deleted that post :slight_smile: I thought I was getting a good signal through palm, but I wasn’t, and I found the threads saying Indala is generally a bad signal. I finally got a good read and it is actually the HID stuff I cloned to it, so now I’m back to the original quest to get something that will read it and do something interesting. The Redbee reader I ordered should connect to an RPi, so I’ll start there and if that doesn’t work out, I’ll order the xACv2. Thanks for you help!

The internet remembers lol

Until you need it that is

I didn’t see resolution so I figured I’d toss my 2 cents out

Speaking of,
Have you made sure to keep an eye on the rotation of implant to the reader?

I reread and noticed it’s in position 1, which can be slightly awkward to present to a wall reader

And consider too that the implant won’t be actually parallel with your arm, which I used to use as a reference… but that was faulty because in my arm being perfectly presented, the implant was off by 15 degrees or so

I could easily see that in bending your arm/hand you and rotating the implant enough to push it past the line of not reading

Based on the Implant Sutra I think it’s position 0, but it really is awkward regardless. Knowing what I know now, I’d have gone for a flex

Sorry idk why I said position 1, I meant 0 you had it right

Flex’s are a bit more involved and trickier to install, and they don’t just magically work a million times better

Don’t sell your next short, it took me a couple weeks of playing to get mine to read, and now I can’t mess it up

And some readers are just crap, it might not even read a flex good

I have a payment flex, that won’t work with 95% of terminals in my area because they are crap

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That’s certainly a possibility, I have to take my ring off and hold it flat to the reader before it takes it, but I can’t help but think that a flex would just be easier to present to readers. I will find something interesting to do with my NExT, but might consider a flexEM specifically for office access. I think it would be great in position 8.

:open_mouth:

8 !?!

8 !?!

Wow, how big are your fingers?

I think you may be underestimating the size if the FlexEM

OR

I am underestimating the size of your fingers

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I also think the FlexEM will work really well for what you want to do.
There range is much better than an xSeries due to physics.

But you might be better off looking for another location.

Here is a common option

This thread may be of interest

I could have it wrong, but I thought I read that Amal had one there. I believe that I also read that it will have a bit of a curve when it comes out of the tube and would conform to a finger. By the picture, it’s smaller than a dime, and my finger is wider than a dime, I figure it would work :smiley:

In other news, I got a card read from ebay today. It reads the prox card from 3 inches, it reads the T5577 rings from 2 inches, it will not read my NExT :confused: Hopefully will have better luck with the Redbee when it gets here.

Nope, the flexEM is like a penny in both size and flexibility. (20mm diameter for the flexEM, 19mm diameter for the penny)

Definitely not recommended to install one in the knuckle of your finger.

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I’m was a bit confused, because in the product photo at flexEM T5577 - RFID & NFC Chip Implants and Biohacking products it’s clearly smaller than the dime, and the description calls it “semi-flexible”, but I do see that it also says 20mm. So yeah, not going on a finger :slight_smile:

Kinda; but It is a FlexNT
:flexnt:

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Today I cloned an EM410x card onto the NExT and have no problems reading that, so it seems like my problem is specific to HID. Sad that I won’t be able to use it for work access, but I’m happy that I’ll be able to use it for other things. On the plus side, EM410x usb keyboard wedges are cheap and plentiful.