Last minute questions/double check, installer appointment made

Someone needs to do the work and get a decent petition together.
I just tried writing something down, but soon there are questions for a lawyer.

Even defining a decent goal is hard.
A license to use lido?
Is that an addition to a piercer/bodymod license? Does something like this even exist?

The only thing I do know is, I want a qualified pro to legally use lido to install a flexNExT in my hand.

But in the end it should be the same everywhere in the world.
Some international organization that suggests laws for this would be epic…

Does something like this even exist?

So it doesn’t. Even more work.
Sigh are cosmetic surgeons or something like this allowed and trained to do everything properly?
Then maybe bodymodding is a subset of that, legally?
Like, copy paste some laws?

I really hope the situation in the UK gets better fast!
But most of the world needs some new regulations for this stuff.

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I know… shouldn’t be that way, but that’s how people react when not knowing enough. Sigh.

The anaesthetic thing could be defined as s.c. injection (which is legal for everybody - so, at least in germany, you can create a bagel-head without any qualification) of whatever anaesthetic is commonly used (and thaaat’s the problem - the drugs themselves are not free for everyone).
Other than that, I think it would be a good idea to tie that to some kind of qualification - maybe even a training of some sort that has to be “refreshed” every two years or so (similar to the first aid qualification). Additionally, it would definitely be helpful to have some sort of license or apprenticeship for bodymods, but currently no such thing “really” exists - there are several organisations with really good standards, but nothing “official”.

That could turn out difficult, because cosmetic surgeons are “acutal doctors” - they’ve studied medicine. My bodmod-artist didn’t… so, if you poke that bees nest, there might be even more problems coming up^^

Honestly, we want politics to allow people to do (small) surgeries without having studied medicine. That’s quite a big step, and many people will oppose that. Strongly. Simply because they are uninformed. So I think it would be a good idea to define why a bodmod-artist can do things a cosmetic surgeon can’t do or wouldn’t want to do.

This would be just wonderful…
One could say it has to do with basic human rights, but it might be really hard to get a lobby for that. At least one that is big enough, sadly…

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No its illegal in the UK full stop. You have to be a registered medical professional. E.G a doctor/Nurse

Maybe in the future but thats more than far off at the moment. Can’t get all countries to agree on any laws or policies as it is

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As opposed to a company called KSEC, which sounds like SEX in reverse, and if I didn’t know better, sounds like a thinly disguised sex shop? :slight_smile:

Just some crazy thing I’m thinking about…
I don’t know anything about UK law, but… maybe one could kinda “sue” the state? Just a crazy idea, but if someone says it is his right as a human being to get… hm, his ears removed or his tongue split, for example, and by passing stupid laws the state denies him the opportunity to do that… would that work? Individual freedom is valued very high in europe, so they would at least have to find a very good reason to deny that… and since that’s something no cosmetic (or any other) surgeon would do, it would be the job of Dr. Evil, Samppa, Veronica Blades and the like :wink:

Pfft thats a first ! The term “SEC” is short for security and a common term in our industry :slight_smile:

Clearly you’ve got sex on your mind. KSEC can’t help with that haha.

You’ll find some people are banned from the UK for doing this work.

Lidocaine falls under a controlled substance so touchy ground. A person can’t stop another person from doing it and it falls under drug laws. But a company or someone offering paid services is out of the question.

Again Im not a lawyer but my personal understanding from our installer network and my own experience is you’re going to be in the shit if someone reports you.

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I know. And the problem is, some procedures are not possible without it. So, I thought one could apply enough pressure on politics to find some kind of solution to that by pulling the “I need to have that done to me, otherwise I don’t feel like a happy human being”-joker, kind of. I have no idea if that would even be remotely possible at all, but I would go quite a long way if someone would deny me my modifications… wouldn’t be a happy human being without them^^
I mean, if it’s a financial problem, one could collect money online and hire the best available lawyer, that shouldn’t be an issue… and if it would work, it would have quite an international signal effect :wink:

Procain in the uk is reasonably available and can definatly be used if you are competent but again its a drug and it can / will kill you if used wrong.

I was just pulling your leg. I did figure it stood for Kai’s Security or something. Still, ya know, phonetically… the thought occurs.

Yes, yesiree. And no, I noticed :slight_smile:

Of course it wouldn’t.

By definition, the law exists to prevent individuals from doing what society as a whole deems unacceptable. So you might feel as a human being that it’s your fundamental right to split your tongue, cut off an ear, walk around stark naked when it’s hot outsie, or paint the Brandenburg gate pink in the name of art. But society has a different opinion and imposes its opinion on you through the law.

In many cases, it’s just plain common sense (i.e. you’re not allowed to run a red light because you’re dangerously disturbing traffic) and in many cases, it’s completely arbitrary (like nudism - the law spells out “common decency”, which has a different meaning for different individuals).

Body modification and implants walk a fine line between acceptable and indecent. Society hasn’t evolved to the point where you’re at yet.

Yep, and that’s the point I just deem “not right”. Painting the Brandenburg gate pink would affect a whole lot of people who rather like it the way it is - or purple, or whatever. But splitting my tongue affects only me. Nobody else. Nobody has to like it, nobody has to stand the pain it might bring, just me myself - so why on earth can other people decide if I’m allowed to do that? I’m not affecting anyone with that!
Okay, when I cut off my ears (btw, nothing I’d ever do^^), people might see that and dislike it. Again - so what? I don’t like… hm, obese girls wearing leggins. Seriously, that just does not look nice. At all. And still, I’m not demanding a law to prevent this. So just because a part - and maybe even a large part - of society doesn’t like the way modded people look, they ban it? That definitely feels wrong. And it feels like it’s against fundamental human rights.

Playing devil’s advocate here… Actually it does bother a lot of people: people who can’t stand the sight of you when you open your mouth, people who think you have a psychological problem and it’s their duty to prevent you from harming yourself, people who can’t stand it on religious grounds because you’re not allowed to modify God’s handy work… So no, it’s not your call alone. It should be, but it ain’t.

… to YOU. Subjective. Just like a split tongue looks positively horrid to me. But as much as I find it really unsightly, I know better than to demand it be outlawed.

Look, I agree with you. But that’s just a personal opinion. Society does not agree with us and that’s a shame. But sadly you have to live within society. If you feel you’re discriminated against, remember that there are other societies where people are harrassed for being barefoot (many US states) and women have to go out into the street disguised as lampshades on pain of imprisonment (strict muslim countries).

Yeah… I know that there are a whole lot of countries where people are oppressed in a really terrible way, and that can’t (and shouldn’t) be compared to the problems I address here. But even in those countries, change happens - slowly, but steadily, if enough people (in those countries, not from the outside) raise their voices. It’s a long process, but it is possible - or, like discussed in another thread, people decide to live somewhere else.
My point is, if nobody says something against “social standards”, they remain in use. Even if they are outdated or discriminating or plain stupid (like not being allowed to go barefoot). And since I’m in the lucky position of not being discriminated because of my skin colour, my sexuality or whatever (at least not where I live), I try to find a way to say something against that stupid social standard that affects me - anything else would be hypocritical.

Hey, it’s just as subjective as people who don’t want me to split my tongue (don’t actually plan to do that, but still^^) or get my skin cut because they think I’ve got psychological problems :wink: It’s all just prejudices and aesthetics, and both is very subjective (at least I think so).

Damn this thread took a turn lol

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Haha, yep, they tend to do that.
I would have split it off, but I think your initial question was answered!?
Did you need any more info for your last minute questions?
whens the big day?
If you want the above diversions split out let me know and I’ll shift them to another more suitable thread! I might just do it anyway when I’m back at a PC…

Nah it’s fine just amusing

Next Saturday at 2pm
I might work at 4 so that might be interesting

I’m only hesitant about position 4 and making sure it’s not too close to the bone, guy seems reputable and says he’s done a couple magnets and chips in that location but still

Also guy is asking if I’ll want to plan to take a break between stabs

I don’t think so but I haven’t been stabbed before…
(Unless we are talking high velocity objects)

I’d decide that spontaneus - usually, and just from my experience, it’s better not to take a break. Adrenaline and endorphines and all that stuff float through your body in that moment, and it’s better to get everything done before this gets less. Additionally, giving your brain time to think about what might come next (especially if you already know it might hurt a little, because you’ve got the first on in) usually leads to the following stabs being more painful.
One situation when it might be good to take a break is if your circulation goes down - then, of course, take a break, lay down, drink some water and such.

Done that with piercings and tattoos before, and it’s a not-so-good-thing, honestly (yep, and I still do it… stupid me :smile: )^^ One thing, due to adrenaline going down, I tend to be a little tired about 1-2 hours after the appointment, and, more important, you should try to keep the affected area calm and ideally raised to keep down the swelling. Dunno what you do at work though, maybe that’s even possible :wink:

Just something else to think / be aware about
Vasovagal Syncope

Personally, I have never experienced anything like this, but it does and can happen.
There are a couple of good examples in the forum, let me find you a couple of links…

Here’s a good one, and Amal includes another couple of links to follow

and another example of interest


Like my modder says - always have a good breakfast before an appointment :wink:

D day is tomorrow,
What level pain should I expect again?
I was under the impression of a 3/10 but someone was talking about red hot metal, but that was a Facebook, so maybe he was just talking it up

Back and forth of ibuprofen before, blood thinner effect stuff negatively?

@amal I know there were other threads, but which was is the xSIID in the needle again?
XSIID is going in position 0, and hoping for led to be closer to wrist ( so that it’s more visible with iPhone scans from other people )