The anti🚫-derailment🚃 & thread🧵 hijacking🔫 thread🧵 ⁉

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@ODaily

Remember when being current and “hip” on the internet meant that every word had to have an

i, infront of it
iPhone, iPad, iPod, iPods

and then the completely unrealted to apple bandwagon jumped on with their iProducts
Without the need to give examples, You all know what i mean

[ODaily]

iknow

[enginerd]

https://pslocks.com/en/pad-padlock-with-own-logo-electronic-with-rfid-and-bluetooth/

Looks interesting but it’s probably a reseller of chinise products. Might be worth looking for the same thing on aliexpress.

[ndangerous]

Hi @Pilgrimsmaster yeah, it was a dry install. It took about 30 mins and it was exquisite torture. I was shaking and sweating the whole time. Really impressed that anyone could do a self-install. Now I understand why the piercer refused when I called. I was thinking I would post a ‘lessons learned’ for others considering a walletmor. If I could, I would also contribute some additions to the FAQ on this site.

Afterwords my mrs (yes, you guessed correctly ) said that the lube we saw in another install video would have been massively helpful. Of course we only realised this midway and there was none on hand. In all of my research it was never really mentioned. I also realised the needle is massive compared to the injectable syringes which I was watching installs of as reference.

Aw man, you have put the fear in me that it will stop working! I had read on the walletmor site that it could endure high impacts - is that not correct?

I had also read somewhere you can use the needle to poke the implant in further, I guess that is not so correct either.

Hell yeah paying with my hand is great! I have wanted to do this since I was 15 years old so I am pretty stoked. Totally worth it IMO

[Az_F]

@ndangerous

I had read on the walletmor site that it could endure high impacts

I haven’t followed the conversation here, but usually what wears down flexes is not the impacts but rather them being repeatedly bent and unbent (even a little ) thousands of times per day. That’s why flat spots away from joints are recommended.

@ndangerous

I had also read somewhere you can use the needle to poke

Blunt tools yes, the needle is not blunt at all

@ndangerous

Hell yeah paying with my hand is great!

Congrats on your install!

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@ndangerous

It took about 30 mins and it was exquisite torture

I didn’t look like fun.

I hope it hasn’t scared you off getting anymore implants.

the xSeries needles are (llightly) pre-lubed, and for flex you’ll know to get some lube (medical), When you get a custom needle from DT it comes with a sachet of lube for the exact reason you experienced.

I’m not taking credit for it, but when I got my custom payment install, I sent the install video to Amal, and I think that convinced him that lube would be a “compulsory” addition.
And mine only took 3 mins of a 40kg Korean lady persisting by pushing and prodding to penetrate me properly, not 30mins like yours.

@Pilgrimsmaster

This Flex obviously took a bit longer to make the hole, but I think some needle lube would help the piercer penetrate me a little more easily next time (DT MAY look at providing some lube with the custom needles in the future.)
Other than taking a bit longer, it felt the same, the Custom Needle did an amazing job and the cavity it created was PERFECT, she slipped it (the Flex) in so easily and quickly, I didn’t even feel it
Because of the size of the hole, I just needed the butterfly strip to aid the haemostasis.

If you are considering the custom payment service, don’t let the the process be the sticking point.

Sorry about the double entendres, When you are talking lube, penetrating and slipping it in, There is no point fighting it, its going to happen, you might as well embrace it

I’m actually surprised Walletmor don’t provide lube in their kit, or at the very least, a suggestion to do so
Maybe because they reccomend a professional installer and the installer would likely have some

@ndangerous

Aw man, you have put the fear in me that it will stop working! I

Not my intention, just an awareness, that if it did happen, that kink was likely the reason.

@ndangerous

I had read on the walletmor site that it could endure high impacts - is that not correct?

@Az_F answered this above, and with regards to the flexing of the flex, the flex refers to the flexibility of the encapsulation material, NOT the implant.
Picture a Chip that is soldered to a thin PCB ,

then picture bending that PCB, next to using heat to remove that chip, flexing / bending is probably the next easiest way.

As I mentioned, I REALLY hope I am wrong

@ndangerous

I had also read somewhere you can use the needle to poke the implant in further, I guess that is not so correct either.

If you could find that again, could you share the link, just so we can correct / clarify it.
For DangerousThings, the use of metal tools COULD invalidate the Warranty.

@ndangerous

Hell yeah paying with my hand is great!

Welcome to the club buddy

@Az_F

I haven’t followed the conversation here

Install Videos and Pictures

Another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW_7pZT3Dqs

[Hamspiced]

My finger install took considerably longer than it should have and I had no lube. It’s doable, but would have been so much easier with lube

[ndangerous]

Thanks all for the cool infos. Yes, lessons were learned, but I am not dissuaded. In fact, I am just getting started. I have another payment conversion device that should be with amal tomorrow I believe. That is destined for the other hand . I think this time around, painkillers, lube, have a better way to poke it far into the cavity, and perhaps different placement.

So I am not tooooo worried about the walletmor breaking. Things in life are transient, and the devices expire after a few years anyway. Lets just hope I get a good year+ out of it. It would def have been gutting if it immediately didn’t work after insertion though.

I have looked for the link indicating poking the implant but haven’t found it. I will keep an eye out, but I do recall I read that they flipped it and used the non pointed end, which presumably isn’t as bad.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@ndangerous

I have looked for the link indicating poking the implant but haven’t found it.

Im not sure what Walletmors policy is, but i think it is supposed to be an authorized installer

Walletmor is a completely independent company from Dangerous Things and VivoKey.

Amal encapsulates them and probably supplies the needles.

The warranty i mentioned is a DangerousThings one, and completely fair

heres the relevant excerpt for your reference

Additionally, the polymer coating is very robust, but very thin. If the flex device is handled with tooling such as forceps or tweezers or any tooling other than a sterile gloved hand, it could be punctured or damaged in such a way as to allow moisture to infiltrate over time and damage the internal encapsulated electronics.

As such, flex products carry a 1 year limited warranty, under the condition that the installation must be done by a professional and the installation procedure must be recorded in one single or multiple smaller videos which show;

1. the flex device being removed from the vial, pouch, or polymer bag on to the sterile field.
2. the flex device being picked up and manually installed by the professional without tools.

and the link for further info

Update on Dangerous Things warranty coverage

Hello everyone. Lately we have been challenged a few different ways with our warranty policy. We’ve had to make some critical changes to the way we handle warranty claims. The biggest change is the warranty policy as it applies to flex vs x-series. Flex products are simply too easy for customers and untrained installers to mishandle, that we are limiting the warranty significantly. Of course, we can decide to side with and support the customer on a case by case basis, and most likely will do so,…

[ndangerous]

I thought amal was the CTO? I do understand they are different orgs though yup.

Pretty tragic to hear about the possibility of a puncture slowly destroying the chip. I guess I really didn’t do enough research. Hopefully it should be fine in that regard as the majority of the pressure was applied by hand. I wouldn’t consider pursuing a warranty claim in any case.

I wonder why the chip is flexible. So it reduces the pressure it is putting on a single point on the inside of your hand?

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@ndangerous

I wonder why the chip is flexible

Tests we've performed on our flex implants

If you’ve not seen the test section for our x-series implants, that’s definitely worth a look… but this post is the place where all of our test data on flex devices will be accumulated over time. Installation safety alert We do have an updated safety alert for flex implants, so that’s the first thing I want to make everyone aware of. This alert involves the installation of certain flex implants along the knife edge of the hand (position 5). Lab testing for ISO10993 The following tests were pe…

[amal]

@ndangerous

I thought amal was the CTO?

I was… not for a while now though… at least a year.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@invalid_signal

Maybe saying “Hey, 3 readers of the same model makes maintenance and troubleshooting 3 timss easier than 3 readers of different models.” Lol

Could you offer to fund and install the new readers?
They shouldn’t cost a lot and the infrastructure is already there, so it SHOULD just be a simple swap.

What’s the make and model of the reader that works?

[invalid_signal]

My last ditch effort will be to pay for the devices and labor. My first offer will be have the company pay for an actually upgraded system, second is installing the device myself myself, third is paying for it and installing the devices.
I think I might have a good situation where I might be able to have them swap their old RFID and cam systems into an all in one Linux system that saves them money on subscriptions. We’ll see though, they might believe in the commercial subscriptions, or the single guy in charge of things (I’ve got mixed feelings on it, but it’s not a big corporate management company so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it stays good) will see some benefit in have an on site cheap server with the pre-existing cameras, and a better suite of RFID readers. I’m not well versed in the latter so I have to research that and add it to my printouts before I go up and ask for changes.

Edit: I’m celebrating having everything done in order to sign up for clinicals, and singing up for clinicals, and passing a few assignments, homework, quizzes, and tests. So forgive any misspelling please!

[ndangerous]

Ah, well here is my source material About– Walletmor

[Pilgrimsmaster]

The implant procedure may be performed by a doctor or professional body modifier. We recommend that the person performing the procedure, regardless of the profession, get acquainted with the professional installation guide prepared by us

“professional installation guide prepared by us”

I didn’t go digging TOO deep, but the guide wasn’t exactly obvious or easy to find.

Plenty of fluff to filter through, and still showing Amal as CTO…

[ndangerous]

It came with a little leaflet which you can find a copy of online IIRC. Def not quite enough info to go on by itself but to be fair you don’t know what communications/training they have had with their implant partners.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@Element5

I’m new here! Just got my Apex Flex in my right hand a few weeks ago

@Element5

now I’m thinking of what door lock I can get that will work with an implant (TBD) that can go in my left hand!

Chip compatibility matrix - Google Sheets

As the title suggests, We have a Google Sheets Spreadsheet compiled by, and for the DT (and Vivokey) Forum members. It is a comprehensive, yet not an exhaustive list of products and the DT / Vivokey products they are compatible with. [Screenshot_20200708-204900_Sheets] [image] It is a living document, as we continue to add to and update as we go, Therefore, if you see an error, omission, please post a reply in this thread below. The more information you provide the easier it will make it f…

[Element5]

Thanks for the welcome and link to that Google sheet, super handy!

[ODaily]

I’m re-enrolling in college. I just had to explain to someone that my vaccination records were done, in the 70’s, on paper, before the internet.

The blank look of horror and confusion was well worth it.