This is a thread that started in DT Club in response to a post about these particular magnets. Since it has been brought up in the public forum, I’m moving this thread to the lounge.
Hi guys…
So… I wanted to make a comment about these magnets. I actually evaluated these while I was working on the Titan and they looked promising, but there were supply issues and also some concerns about the coating they put on their Titanium.
Through @Satur9, @mrln was able to supply me one of the magnets he sourced for evaluation. I have just started this process and my concerns are still valid. Personally I would not implant one of these magnets as-is. They are designed to be embedded in dental acrylic, and the coating on the outside is both dirty (fibers and other stuff in there), as well as very loosely adhered. It was not designed for implantation or contact with the body.
DT dm53 and dm42 magnets
That said, I am currently evaluating sources for these types of magnets as well as performing testing and processes to ensure they are safe for implantation. Once proven, we plan to launch our own version called dm53 and dm42. Pre-orders exclusively for the DT Club will be open shortly.
Hi Amal. Earlier today, after being told you had sourced and were testing these magnets we tried contacting you to make sure there wasn’t a conflict of interest before the release planned this evening. We didn’t get an answer.
Just before releasing them we were informed by Tacos that you had decided to sell these specific magnets along with the prices.
We though it was a weird last minute move but given how invested we are in this we decided to go through with it.
Now you’re posting this, further confusing us as to your intents.
The manufacturer doesn’t mention any coating over the titanium and we have no evidence indicating that so far.
Can we have a chat and clarify what’s going on here? We’ve put a lot of effort and money into getting a first batch ready and are worried as to what’s going on at DT.
From my perspective I got a magnet from @Satur9 to test out. I got a chance to test it with my Gauss meter only yesterday. I was inspired to find a source because I felt these had a strong enough field and could work as an implant, though not without some extra effort to make them safer. I found a supplier and notified @Satur9 of my test results… and only after all this, was I informed you guys were working on bringing them to market.
Shortly after, @tac0s starting having conversations with @mrln regarding our plans, being very open and even telling him our intended pricing. Our goal has always been to be open with the community regarding our intentions, but being this forthcoming was only really necessary because we learned literally yesterday afternoon that you guys were planning to launch something with these… so @tac0s immediately fully disclosed our plans and intended pricing.
I’m not sure where or how… if it was discord then just be aware I’m not regularly on discord and I don’t have the client on my phone, so the safest bet contacting me is here on the forum.
I don’t think there is any confusion. Considering this whole ball got rolling just yesterday, and we immediately sent our intentions to @mrln, and we have not yet launched our magnet pre-order because I’m still not done with processing and testing… I think it’s clear that we plan on offering these magnets after they are fully tested and considered ready for implantation. Your decision to launch these in a storefront was unknown prior to deciding to explore this.
Your decision to launch is your business. However, by posting these magnets here, I felt compelled to mention that I personally don’t think they are ready or safe to be implanted as-is… IMO they need changes… either through the manufacturer or through an aftermarket process.
From what I understand, @Satur9 obtained a magnet from @mrln and then asked for permission to send it to me for testing.
My primary concern is that the coating is not entirely known as to the materials involved. It is not designed for contact with the body, and unfortunately it seems to come off the titanium without much effort. It’s exactly this property I plan to exploit in order to remove it from the magnet completely.
Preliminary investigation indicates that the titanium is actually compression fit. I believe that under the coating is the edge of a cap that has been compressed over top of a titanium body. I’m perfectly willing to share all these details and processes as they are proven so you can modify your stock as you feel necessary.
I’m exploring options such as lapidary polishers and Dremel buffing with different compounds. The goal is to remove the coating without damaging the titanium too severely.
I also plan on destructively testing this magnet by seeing if I can remove the cap or cut it in half without destroying the structure. This will further inform the suitability of the magnet as an implant. If it is simply compression fit or worse, if the cap is epoxied on, that will pose other significant challenges for permanent implantation.
All the data I have indicates that the magnets are coated solely in 0.2mm of titanium, with no additional coatings.
I looked at many of them under the microscope, and they seemed really clean. But if that’s really a concern, we can wash them again. That said, they are packed in the same facility and in the same pouches as their other titanium implant-grade products, and to me, they seem clean.
Their laser welding process is highly refined. They manufacture numerous titanium components designed for implantation, including parts that are screwed into bones. Additionally, they produce other magnets with threaded attachments meant to be placed in the skin.
The “grey” area is a coating on top of the titanium. The shiny metal is the actual titanium casing. This coating is a rough texture on purpose because it’s designed to help this magnet stay seated in the acrylic denture. This magnet is not designed to go into the body.
I use a high power stereoscope which gives depth to the magnification and it honestly makes a huge difference trying to figure these kind of things out. I can see ball shaped nodules and other features of this coating which just appear flat and almost featureless in a single lens microscope.
I’m hoping the titanium casing on this particular magnet is laser sealed… that would be great to confirm. The problem with facts that are good and encouraging facts, but are ultimately just facts which are only “adjacent” to the thing being discussed, is that it’s far too easy to make assumptions that turn out to be incorrect. They produce magnets and implants with threads yes… but those magnets with threads are not placed inside the body, the threaded post goes into the body and the magnet generally sits above the gum line, though some tissue encasement is probable. Is that distinction important? Maybe not… but most importantly, this particular magnet we’re discussing here is not designed for implantation. The only part which is meant to be exposed to the mouth, above the acrylic resin of the denture, is the shiny titanium part. All of the grey textured coating area is supposed to be completely bound under dental acrylic. Because of this, one must not simply assume it’s fine because the company makes other things which are implantable.
I don’t think washing will be sufficient. I think gentle mechanical removal of some kind is likely necessary. I am exploring this over the next week or so and will share the results openly so you can take steps with your stock. Ultimately I think there is a good chance that the coating is simply an oxidized titanium alloy that has been sputtered onto the surface, but I can’t confirm that without a chromatograph or xrf scan… both of which are expensive. So, rather than worry about that, my goal is to simply remove it.
So, to recap, my plans are to;
find a good easy method for removing the coating or at least removing the loose parts of the coating so they won’t float around inside people and the remaining coating is strongly adhered to the titanium casing.
confirm the type of titanium cap and seal mechanism used
carefully cut open a test magnet to determine construction (magnetic core, any resins inside, titanium case thickness, etc.
I plan on sharing all these details in a thread on the forum.
I have basic documentation available to the public but since I’ve not actually purchased any direct from the manufacturer I don’t have any CoC or spec sheets.
yeah these are the magnets… Steco is the manufacturer
The bowl might be overkill … I am looking at a lapidary polisher (tumbler) because you can get them in small sizes for cheap, and funny enough you can’t put multiple magnets together into something like this or the bowl as they will all stick together and not get polished that well. I’m working up a thing where i can have multiple individual containers inside the tumbler to help keep things separate and free to move.
perf.
dang… those look roughed up! what all happened to these prior to the photos? Washing? Cutting?
Excellent… hermetically sealed grade 4 is great… it’s still pure titanium (no alloy) and the highest strength and oxygen resistant titanium crystallization structure you can get.
But we’ll figure it out
