Hello everyone, my name is Lars, and I’ve been wanting to get implants for about a week now.
Hi Lars
I was looking at the Ultron bundle on the website, and was interested in the two different chips in it. One is the Spark 2, one is the NExT. First off, What does the Spark do? How is it different from the NExT? Is it even anything special? Secondly, the NExT has both a 13.56 MHz, and a 125 KHz chip. is this meaning that they both operate independently? Is it just one that does both? And does writing to one interfere with the other? It isn’t very well explained (or more likely, i just don’t know where to look). Thirdly (and lastly i promise), The xM1 is advertised as working with MiFare s50 1k chips. is this the only implant that is compatible? And how common is that specific MiFare in the real world? Any response would be helpful, as I’m basically illiterate in this. Thank you so much!!!
For the NExT questions:
NExT has both a 13.56 MHz, and a 125 KHz chip. is this meaning that they both operate independently?
Yes. Unless the reader you’re scanning it on does both frequencies, it would read just the chip it’s tuned for without messing with the other.
And does writing to one interfere with the other?
Nope. I write to the LF and HF sides independently of each other. Again, they’re tuned differently, so it should be really hard to mess with both at once
There’s a slew of resources on here, I would start with most everything here
As far as the Spark. I have one, but opted against implanting it, as I’m eagerly awaiting the Apex. I could give a basic rundown, but I’ll leave that to those of us who actually use theirs. They do have a number of differences and benefits to the regular HF chips though
Wait wait wait, Apex? Whats that one? I haven’t heard of that one at all.
The Apex is a flex Implant Amal just told us is in the works about a week ago, Currently scheduled for release May-ish. It’s the successor to the Flex one They just retired from Beta, and will be like a spark with extra capabilities (They recently released a java applet to emulate Tesla keys) and as far as I’ve understood from the discussions, contactless payments.
There’s no dedicated thread for the Apex, so here’s just a slew of search results… Sorry it’s such a messy way to deliver info
https://forum.dangerousthings.com/search?expanded=true&q=apex%20%40amal
Do you think it’s gonna be worth waiting? I was planning on getting the NExT and xM1 in April.
That really depends on the individual. I’ve opted to hold off on getting my spark in favor of the Apex. Keep in mind though, the install process for a Flex is a little different, and you may have a harder time finding someone to assist you with the install. I personally feel it’s always nice to have an NExT, the two chips in one has proven super awesome so far. I personally have little use for an xM1, but if you need to change your UID for whatever reason, it’s the way to go, from what I’ve read so far.
The Apex I feel should be done in Addition to a NExT, just based off the way I understand the Vivokey products write data.
How is the installation different?
Here’s the installation guide and a picture of the 5.1mm needle for it
I see Pilgrim typing away down there though. He’s got the answers to probably everything in his post. (I genuinely get excited when I see him typing, I’ve yet to find a post of his that isn’t just overflowing with info)
@ThexTallxDude I will say the Apex line will actually be released in a glass capsule, a flex piece and a ring.
The “Flex” vs the glass “Max chip” will have no difference between the two besides antenna design. That being said the flex will support Tesla keys were as the Max chip due to its small size might not be able to be read by Tesla reader, but it will be able to produce the Java Applet and keys to unlock the car.
Ooooooooo, I missed that post. I’ll probably go with a flex anyway, instead of fighting with positioning as much.Really hoping I’ve got enough meat on me to get it between my middle and ring finger metacarpals.
Sorry I took so long to reply, LIFE got in the way…
@ThexTallxDude has awesomely and quickly put you on the right track.
Just to fill in the Spark Gaps for you ( And NExT that Tall Dude covered), somebody asked the same question just the other day, This is @amal reply
Now that @ThexTallxDude and @amal have answered your other questions, I will attempt to answer your remaing ones, Including the ones you didn’t know to ask 
The NExT is a fantastic Implant. ( My Favourite ) Without a SPECIFIC use, and If I could get only one implant, The NExT would be it.
To answer your xM1 question, It is a legacy product, which now means there are A LOT of systems that used it, It is not secure, BUT that works in our favour, as it has a “backdoor” function, meaning we can write a new UID / NUID to it ( It is the ONLY High Frequency device we can do this with ), HOWEVER it is only compatible with its own system, so as good as it is, there is no point having one if you don’t have access to a system that uses it, But again, there are a lot out in the great wide world so your chances are good.
Before I further answer your questions, I would say to you, all the different options can be both exciting AND overwhelming; I would suggest WE work backwards.
There is no point getting an implant you can’t or don’t know how to use; It is Good for DT sales in the short term, but I THINK It is better for them to have a returning well informed happy customer 
telling everybody how awesome their implant is, how they can use it and understand enough to be able to explain how it works to others.
I will shortly send you away to do some research, and when you come back with some answers, we will be able to help you make your decision.
What are you trying to achieve? Access, data storage, Business cards, Payment*?
What is your current use case? if any!
What do you currently have access to use implants on?
Get us as much info as you can ( Access panels, Key cards, fobs, speak to security system admins )
Have a look through the Wikis and FAQs that @ThexTallxDude linked to , they should give you a decent amount of knowledge to make an informed decision.
Without answers from you, I would suggest this:
Get a NExT & Spark2 Now
When released, get an Apex; The Spark 2 will effectively be “replaced” by the Apex BUT the Spark 2 will become a Backup to the Apex, and still be usable in it’s own right.
- Payment coming in the Apex line eventually…
Hope we have all answered your questions for now, once you have done your research, I’m sure you will have more, but thats what we are here for.
Well that’s the best response I’ve ever gotten out of a forum period. Thanks! And for my research, I am going into the penetration testing world as a career, and just want implants that will be able to cover most systems. If its possible, I want to be able to have a friend ask me “Yeah, well could you clone that one?” And I want to be able to say yes. I don’t have a specific use case as of this moment, but I just want t be able to use it on as many systems as i can. Thanks!
@Larsenic, As an employee with a Red Team firm, I can tell you the NeXT and xM1 Flex would be by far considered the “pentesters kit” it allows you to basically touch 85% of any system you’ll find in the wild.
I’m about to put an order in this weekend when I get back home for a xM1 soooo excited!
Well, That actually helps out to answer your question A LOT, @MouSkxy will be able to give you some good pointers. @DeviantOllam is on this forum from time to time.
He has an xEM in one hand and an xNT in the other, So he can recce access panels, by walking past and swiping and if you get a response, you get an idea of what Frequency you are working with ( I will find you the link from where he mentions this ) (You could use the NExT, but it could cause you issues on a dual-frequency reader) SOME of my work readers do this to me on occasion, which is why I am putting in a specific xEM dedicated to my workplace.
Here are my initial Thoughts
BUT The problem you have is, you will need to (should) plan ahead your placements
NOW, There are sooo many options and variations you could choose, so I will give you one idea, and let @MouSkxy and @DeviantOllam correct me.
Get 2 x xLEDs an LF xLED in one colour and HF xLED as another ( I have Not so subtly, hinted at a 2in1 xLED device for this purpose )
The bonus of this is, using an xLED you will visually, silently and with no interface with the actual system ( It is just energising the LED ) so you can at least get a Frequency, and specifically sniff for the employee cards on a “War walk” with the correct antenna.
Placement, 2in1 ideal, but until then ( if it happens ) you could go HF & LF in the same hand ( at least 5mm apart for safety) or one in each hand.
Argh, I said one suggestion and to many variations, oh well…
So NOW you have your Frequency IDentifier solution, you need something to write to ( UID/ NUID)
Fortunately, your options are made easy by the fact that you only have a couple of options to choose from.
Low Frequency
xEM ( Compatible with may systems )
NExT ( May cause cross talk, although I love 
the NExT, in a Pentest, I dont think it is the best tool.
High Frequency
xM1 ( soon FlexM1gen1a & FlexM1gen2 - maybe x Series also??? )
as I said in the other post, This is only compatiable with a specific system, BUT if your target uses it, you are onto a winner.
Now we know your Pentesting career pursuit, I will amend my initial recommendation
Your shopping list is as follows ( for what is currently available in the DT store )
xLED LF Colour a
xLED HF Colour b ( You could get xSIID, PRO storage and access CON potentially not invisible to security system you are trying to stealthfully interrogate )
xEM
xM1
+
Spark 2???
You could get more, but that is a good start
Apex When it is available… but now I am getting distracted.
But since I am distracted 
In the future I would wish for 
a Pentest Bundle
2in1 LF/HF xLED + xEM + xM1
OR
I am hoping for a 2in1 xEM/xM1
OR
2in1 xEMLED 2in1 xM1LED ( But would you put HF LED with xM1 or LF LED etc???
Distraction finished
Now where to place your current shopping list?
again many variations, But this time one suggestion ( you could argue for the other variations, but at the end of the day it is YOUR decision )
Left Hand LF & HF xLEDs
Right Hand xEM & xM1 
I’ll leave it at that,
Hope that is helpful and some food for thought.
any more questions, feel free to ask, Myself or the others Should be able to answer them.
During my ramblings, @MouSkxy has answered you, Glad we have SIMILAR thoughts
HERE is the video I mentioned with @DeviantOllam explaining the “interrogation” method with his xEM, The whole video would be a good watch for you, if you haven’t seen it already
Wow. Okay this is now my favorite forum of all time. Thank you so much everyone for the incredible responses. I’m sure I’ll have many more, and now I know who to ask. Y’all are perfect.
Okay I’m already back. Last time for today at least, I promise. I was recommended the two color implants for finding frequencies, the xM1, and the xEM. The xEM does 125 Khz, so my question is, does the xM1 work as a normal reprogrammable 13.56 Mhz chip? It advertises working with MiFare s50 1k, but can it do run-of-the-mill 13.56 sensors? Thanks!
No the xM1 can not do run of the mill 13.56 freq. It is designed specifically for MiFare 1k backdoors as these are the most widely used systems in the wild 
.
Think of the 1k as a HiD card that employed shitty security but was sold as a HOLY GRAIL. The world swallowed the blue pill, lol.
Part of the issue here is that there are no such thing as “run of the mil 13.56” anything… even within the HF frequency family there are two very common yet incompatible ISO standards (ISO14443A/B & ISO15693).
A lot of older legacy systems used for building access and sometimes hotel room keys tend to use the Mifare “Classic” 1K chip in their cards, fobs, and badges because it was one of the first passive transponders to proclaim “we have a secure chip!” … but it’s long since been broken. Now the driving factor for keeping these cards in existence is that they are much cheaper than actually secure chips and there are tons of new systems that still support these older cards because they are everywhere… so if you have a large business that has 1000+ readers around various buildings, and you’re adding new readers or replacing ones that die… you can’t move away from the Mifare “Classic” because you’d have to update every single reader… so Mifare “Classic” chips will be around a very long time.
That said, they are not NFC compliant, even though some phones with NFC reader chips from NXP (the company that owns Mifare chip designs) can read them. So now you see NFC chips rising in popularity, and that drives cost down, and so some new access control systems only use more secure chip types like DESFire EV1 or EV2… but by far the most popular 13.56MHz chip used in terms of card count out there is the Mifare “Classic” chip.
Hope that makes sense.