Help a newbie dive in the deep end!

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Hi everyone :smiley:

So I’ve been following RFID implant news on and off for about two years now, and I’ve decided I’m finally going to get some before moving countries, just cuz I know of piercers nearby and cbf to look around in a new country.

Anyway, I’ve tried my best to read up on all the information I can find, but its all very overwhelming. I want to quickly mention some pointers and just wanted for someone to dummy check my logic/reasoning behind my purchase decisions before taking the plunge.

First things first, my use cases:
The main thing I want to be able to do is open doors and locks. Besides that, I want to be able to store information and other cool things and be able to share that information with a quick swipe.

From what I can gather, this means I’ll need the NExT implant. which is the xEM (more for locks and access control) and the xNT (more for NFC with phones and the usual vCard fun stuff).

It has come to my attention that there’ll be hurdles when it comes to cloning certain types of fobs/cards for accessing normal buildings/gyms and this will require experimenting and is not guaranteed to work. This is okay to me for the most part because my implants will be more of a prep for a future project where I have full access to my OWN access control system. ie. at a new house and I’ll just need to enrol/register my own implants rather than cloning someone elses.

While the xEM should be able to mimic certain cards/fobs, I’d like a separate experimental implant that supports many other systems. I don’t yet have the technological knowledge to say exactly what systems I want to access, but from what I can gather the xM1 is what I’m looking for. I’m assuming this is the kind of implant to use if I want to experiment with cloning hotel room cards / certain public transport cards right?

and lastly, the xDF2 is a glorified version of the xNT with more memory and supports a few more fancy things I can’t wrap my head around yet.

So in short:
I’m planning to get:
(2x) NExT implants
(1x) xM1
(1x) xDF2
to cover every possible use case and experiments I want to be able to do. Again, please correct me if I’ve gotten the wrong idea up till now.

An example of how I might actually use these implants practically is left hand with one NExT for house keys and access to my own systems covering both LF and HF, whatever I might need.
The other NExT in my right hand will be for similar things but I guess it’ll just be a spare.
xM1 for experiments
and xDF2 for a detailed vCARD.

Questions I have…
Getting the implants is the easy part, but the thing that really has me confused is what exactly my options are in terms of reading/writing and accessing them.

From what I can gather the xNT parts of the NExT tag as well as the xDF2 can be read/written to easily with a phone (if you have the right app). So what about the xEM? I’m assuming for simple cloning I can get the simple handheld cloners.

As for the xM1, is this also something I can experiment on with my phone? Take for example the usual “Oh I want to clone my Hotel room card!” situation. How doable is this for a newbie?

I guess my main concern is, while I totally understand pretty much everything in the Dangerous Things world is experimental, and nothing is a turn-key solution, how close can I in fact get it to be a turn-key solution?

Perhaps I’m hoping someone could enlighten me as to specific use cases that are extremely easy to implement with minimal other hardware like readers/writers (Just to get started, I plan on diving deeper into this AFTER the move so I don’t have more things to pack).

and finally, possibly the most important, what are some tips for the actual implant process? things I should pay attention to etc, and what should I add to my cart so I have everything I need to get started and TEST the new implants before insertion and right after?

Thank you for your time everyone! Looking forward to some good advice :smiley:

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youre gonna want a proxmark3 easy, these are sold by DT so theyre easy to find. i personally would not trust a “cloning gun” with the xem side of your implant. the proxmark has all you will need to change the UID of your xm1 and write effectively to your xem side of your nexts

if you can, get to an installer they do everything better. I did all mine by self installs because I’m cheap but I’m planning on doing the rest by installer, it’s much better than self installs. if you are going to attempt it, get some kind of pinching device to make the skin tented to make insertion easier.

pick out your spots for implantation before attempting anything.

get some kind of numbing cream (sold by dt too) to make the process as least painful as possible

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Mate, I really liked your post.
Really good first post and clear you have done your homework before posting; and you are pretty spot on with almost everything.

I am away from a computer at the moment and you deserve a much better reply than what I am giving you here.
I agree with @Equipter comments, and looks like @yeka is replying to you also.

When I’m back at a pc I will add some stuff for you (if I need to) i’ll leave you to the others capable hands.

Sorry this is more compliment than constructive

Sorry. But :arrow_double_up: & :arrow_double_down:

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Well researched, you’ve got everything right afaik.

People will say you should rather get a proxmark.

Would be possible with the flexM1 gen2, look at the magic chips post for more info.

I mean the xDF2s security wont be broken for quite some time, I’d say thats pretty future proof.

I let others help you with the installation, but that’s something your piercer should know best.

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Ah yes, I just saw some other posts about how the blue cloners are just flaky. As for the Proxmark3 Easy, I thought I saw somewhere that it was EOL, and plenty of people were suggest the RDV4. What are the advantages to investing in a RDV4 early? What exactly are the differences between the two besides hardware? Are the capabilities very similar? I’d assume most of the tweaking depends on the software/firmware side of things.

Again, I’ll just need a reliable way to clone both HF and LF cards/fobs, as well as learn how to possibly format/unbrick something in case I mess it up. Several posts I’ve read have warned about using certain android apps, but all have mentioned you’ll need a proxmark in order to rescue it in case anything goes wrong.

Thats the plan! I read about ChipMyLife in Sydney but with COVID and all they’re not doing any implant services anymore. Luckily I did find a piercing place right here in Melbourne that literally advertises they do RFID implants!

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Any advantages to investing in a RDV4 over a Proxmark3 Easy early on? I only budgeted for a couple implants, so if I decide to get an RDV4 I may have to hold off on the xM1 and xDF2 for now :frowning:

Unfortunately I’m not sure how I feel about going into Flex implants yet. I’d be more comfortable if I could find an actual medical professional/surgeon willing to do them but as I mentioned in my original post I’m moving to a different country soon. The appeal of the X-series was how easily they could be done by any piercer with decent experience. This calms my nerves especially as I plan on getting four tags done at once.

But just to confirm, I can still in fact clone certain cards to the xM1 provided they’re 4-byte “Classic” 1k cards, after which I can issue a special back door command that opens up all sectors to writing, including sector 0, and finally that’s where I can copy the serial number of the chip to. Did I get that right?

What did you mean by this? When I mentioned turn-key solution I was referring to how simple it would be to actually start using the implants the way I mentioned in the original post. From what I can gather now, it actually all seems pretty simple.

  1. get implants
  2. plug in proxmark
  3. learn all the read/write/formatting commands
  4. clone away!
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Thank you @Pilgrimsmaster!

I do occasionally dabble in tech/pc forums too so I can understand the frustration when it comes to the sheer amount of new posts where its clear when someone hasn’t done their research.

Much appreciated! At this point I’m actually pretty convinced I have most of the basics figured out, and have a pretty good idea on what other hardware I need to pull off my goals. Just waiting on some replies on questions regarding the Proxmark and xM1 cloning capabilities and I think I can start placing orders!

Speaking of orders, would anyone happen to know what the shipping & handling is like? I’m not sure I want to fork out $50 for DHL and stuff. I’m planning to be cheap and settle with the included free shipping to Australia

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Oops okay sorry, yeah it’s pretty easy to enroll a new tag in a lock if you have the correct lock.
Just search in the compatibility matrix for products that are confirmed working.
Replacing your home lock and enrolling your imolant takes like 20min.
TIL what turn-key solution means haha

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The ProxLF Antenna for xSeries LF chips is pretty good. If you have the money get one, personally I used the blue cloner until now.

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Yes, not quite sure if the magic backdoor command opens everything or just sector 0 but it doesnt matter, yeah you’re right.
Sorry for missing that question.

I would argue many piercers who can do a xM1 install can do a flex needle install. It’s only 1.25mm more if I’m right.

Personally I do the implant first approach, later I can spend some hundrets on the real proxmark.
Get the easy like @Equipter said.

Oh and just take free shipping, why wouldn’t you?

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As promised

Understandable, in your case, it looks like you have filtered your way through most of the “clutter”.

You have come to the right place

Pretty much, but xNT is equally capable of locks and access control as long as it is compatible.

Not many that will be insurmountable, with sufficient knowledge, equipment and/or social engineering skills.

This is OFTEN a POSSIBILITY :wink: , but not always, otherwise yeah, your logic is sound.

Applets is what you are trying to say, you will need some knowledge to deploy / implement them, alternatively, you can disappoint Amal by just using the storage space for NDEF data :wink:

That sounds perfect for what you are wanting to do.
What I would say though, Do consider the Flex (wedge) options, Here’s why:-
The procedure is very very similar.
Pain is Very very similar
The range is significantly improved
The FlexM1gen1a and gen2 have some key differences ( Have a good read through THIS )

That would have been answered by the FlexM1 link I gave you above, the xM1 is the equivalent of the gen1a in xSeries form.

Yes, it will do the job for MOST of your more common possibilities:-
EM41xx / EM4200, HID ProxCard II, or AWID
but as the others mentioned below, a Proxmark would be the “better” option as it will do ALL of your possibilities.

Here are your links

https://dangerousthings.com/product/blue-cloner/
The Chameleon Mini / Tiny are also some good Mifare tools, but the Proxmark will do that for you.

With your implants you listed above plus a cloner(s) of your choice, you will be pretty much ready to go, I am personally holding high hopes for the Flipper Zero
IF that can read and write HF/LF implants, I feel the pure convenience will be a game-changer for us.

Your phone, anything else you kind of need to have the THING you want to interact with.

I would strongly recommend an xAC small, cheap and useful.

Read this ( if you haven't already)

HOW DO I GET IT IMPLANTED

Here is a VERY informative FAQ about x-Series implants, some of which is covered below. But it is recommend you read these FAQs.
There are piercing partners but if there is none near you any body piercer should be able to implant this for you.

A doctor, nurse or medic would be able to but they will likely take more convincing…

A self or assisted install is possible,
The following links that will make this very clear that it is easy to do

read https://dangerousthings.com/wp-content/uploads/Introduction-to-Implantable-Transponders-for-Professionals.pdf ?

read https://dangerousthings.com/wp-content/uploads/Professional-Guide-to-2x12mm-transponder-installation.pdf ?

Watch Installation procedure Guide 1

Watch Installation Procedure Guide 2

Watch Needle insertion angle

How to approach a professional DT Info

Make sure you are aware of
Vasovagal Syncope

:shopping_cart:

  • The implants you choose
  • The implements you need to implant the ( ie. Flex Needle, if you get a Flex (wedge))
  • The read/write cloner tool you choose
    MAYBE some pain medication, but you really shouldn’t need it ( pain thresholds differ from person to person, so only you will know
  • Everything else you will receive in the box, including a DT sticker, that you will then need to go to
    Where have you stuck yours ⁉ DT Sticker - #116 by teamhensler

IN THEORY, it is a good thing to do, and the Flexs will be no problem, but even with a Proxmark ( your best option ), probably the only thing you will have the possibility of being able to test in an xSeries syringe BEFORE implantation will be the LF.

Obviously, you could remove from the needles and test, but don’t do that

Of course, you won’t be able to resist testing after implantation, but be conscious of contamination
Also, be prepared to lose readability whilst your body heals. ( Swelling, bruising, fluid buildup )

Hopefully, between mine and the others, we have met your criteria.

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Pretty good summary of what you‘re looking for.
Some experience after you got your implants would be nice.

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Now you know! turning a key is pretty easy… at least for me :smirk:

I read quite a few horror stories though. I ended up ordering the PM3 Easy anyway.

tbh i had no idea what i was talking about. I just like to copy and paste info I found from other threads in case another newbie reads my post it makes it easier to corroborate information.

I would think so too, but unfortunately I haven’t been able to find any studios nearby I trust enough to do the larger flex installs. like if I choose a flexNT or flexM1 I’d probably go for the flexNExT too and that thing is as big as a kicked scrotum.

I wasn’t sure what shipping method they would use. But checked that too! Free DHL International Express on orders over $150 USD in case anyone else is wondering…

If only my girlfriend knew how to keep promises too.

sorry @amal

Bourbon on the rocks

planning to make a video about the experience!

So I ended up getting:
- Proxmark 3 Easy
- xDF2 DESFire EV2 8kB NFC
- Ultimate Implant Bundle
- NExT RFID + NFC Chip Implant - NExT Standard Kit
(NExT, xM1, Spark 2, xDF2 included)

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